I wasn't planning to turn my attention back to the Hurleys for a while, but this has landed in my lap and I have to take what comes. If you are interested in Hurleys from Coolnagarrane, you can read part 1 here.
My Hurley family tree can be found here. John Hurley, son of Michael Hurley and Bridget Cahalane (married 25-May-1838, Leap, Kilmacabea), had three brothers we know about. John (b. 1839) is the oldest. Patrick (b. 1841) is somewhat questionable, only because the mother's surname shows up as Coughlan, not Cahalane (maybe a recording error by a priest who was hard of hearing). Then Daniel (b. 1843) and finally Michael (b. 1849). Notice the gap - maybe the famine had something to do with it?!?
It is Daniel that I am looking at. There were descendants of Daniel Hurleys in Coolnagarrane early in the 20th century, according to the Southern Star archives. Sorting them out is a work in progress. In part 1 I said the Hurleys were a lonely bunch but by the early 20th century there were enough of them to be confusing!
A Daniel Hurley married Honora McCarthy, probably early 1852 or before, and had Ellen bap 17-Dec-1852; Catherine bap 29-Apr-1855; Honora bap 13-Sep-1857; Daniel bap 3-Jun-1860; and John bap 6-Mar-1864. (Thankfully, these records are all online.) My Hurley family had names Ellen, John, and Catherine so the two families do look confusingly similar.
I think this son Daniel married Julia McCarthy 22-Apr-1894 (witnesses John Hurley and Hanoria McCarthy) in the R.C. Chapel of Drimoleague. The age recorded for Daniel was 28, when it should have been 34. The marriage record says his father's name was Daniel (dead).
Ordinarily I would have thought that there were two different Daniels (one age 28, one age 34), but the 1901 census shows Daniel age 40 in Coolnagarrane, along with wife Julia and children, and they show up again in 1911. So the census corrects the age.
Julia, from Drominidy according to the marriage record, died in 1917 and was a McCarthy-Sowney according to the Southern Star news of 3-Feb-1917. Her husband Daniel was already deceased.
If Daniel the younger was born 1860, then who was Daniel his father? Daniel Senior was likely not gg-grandfather John Hurley's younger brother (b. 1843), he would have been an incredibly young father, not impossible but improbable. Perhaps Daniel Senior was a cousin of John's, his father Michael's nephew?
To add to the mystery, there is an older Daniel Hurley in the 1901 census with wife Nellie. If the census age is correct his birth year would have been around 1832. They don't show up in the 1911 census - at least where I looked, in Coolnagarrane - so presumably they were both deceased. In the 1901 census is a daughter Mary Ellen, age 28. She's all I have to go on so at some point I will look for her birth record (circa 1873), which I should be able to do at the Los Angeles FHL. Maybe from there I'll be able to approximate when her parents married. I was thinking this Daniel was gg-grandfather John's uncle - a brother of ggg-grandfather Michael. But if the 1894 marriage record is correct, this older Daniel cannot be the father of Daniel who married Julia. So how are these people all related?
Julia McCarthy may be worth my pursuit too, as she could be distantly related through my Granddad's McCarthy-Sowney lines.
Wednesday, October 27, 2010
Tuesday, October 12, 2010
This is why you must verify online information
I've been researching the family tree descended from one Lawrence Collins of Adrigole (b. 1783, d. 1867), and have been chasing Larry Collinses all over Ireland and even a few who emigrated to the US. In the process, I discovered a Lawrence Collins b. 1878 to a Jeremiah Collins and a Mary Donovan. So I decided to investigate.
I started in the church records, and from there turned up the following:
John,Burgatia,13-Nov-1859,Rosscarbery
Cornelius, ,8-May-1861,Rosscarbery
Patrick,Ross,4-Feb-1863,Rosscarbery
Michael,Barrack Lane,28-Sep-1864,Rosscarbery
Margt,Ross,9-May-1866,Rosscarbery
Jerry,Burgatia,10-May-1868,Rosscarbery
Jas,Burgatia,22-Apr-1870,Rosscarbery
Maurice,,9-Jun-1874,Cork South Parish
I quickly poked around in the online censuses, and in the BMD index at Family search, and found the following:
1901, in Ballynidon, Kinsale Rural DED
Jeremiah Collins, age 68, HoH
Mary Collins, 62, wife
Patrick, brother, 66
Denis, son, 34
Julia, daughter, 30
Jeremiah, son, 26
Lizzie, daughter, 21
Mary Mehigan, granddaughter, 8
In 1911 Jeremiah HoH was deceased and the family was headed by son Denis.
Patrick in Rosscarbery (from the baptismals, above) *may* have ended up in house 28, Burgatia, Rosscarbery DED.
Name Michael Collins
Gender Male
Birth Date 27 Sep 1864
Birthplace 0082,ROSS CARBERY,CORK,IRELAND
Father's Name Jeremiah Collins
Mother's Name Mary Donovan
So far I have found three references on volume 20 for Clonakilty. This looks like it might be on volume 15.
Name Margaret Collins
Gender Female
Birth Date 08 May 1866
Birthplace 0079,ROSS CARBERY,CORK,IRELAND
Father's Name Jeremiah Collins
Mother's Name Mary Donovan
I found one reference on volume 10 for Clonakilty.
Name Jeremiah Collins
Gender Male
Birth Date 09 May 1868
Birthplace Cork, Ireland
Father's Name Jeremiah Collins
Mother's Name Mary Donovan
Reference Number v 10 p 113
That one is pretty straightforward.
Name: James
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Place: 118, ROSSCARBERY, CORK, IRE
Birth Date: 20 Apr 1870
Birthplace: Rosscarbery, Cork, Ire
Father's Name: Jeremiah Collins
Mother's Name: Mary Donovan
Very obscure reference number, and multiple entries in the BMD index in the CLONAKILTY district.
Name Ellen Collins
Gender Female
Birth Date 25 May 1871
Birthplace Cork, Ireland
Father's Name Jeremiah Collins
Mother's Name Mary Donovan
Reference Number v 10 p 487
Straightforward, hopefully. She was registered in the KINSALE district.
Name Mary Collins
Gender Female
Birth Date 03 Jun 1872
Birthplace , , IRELAND
Father's Name Jeremiah Collins
Mother's Name Mary Donovan
She was registered in the CORK district. Not sure if volume 10-1 or 10-2, but on page 208.
Maurice Collins - CORK
Gender Male
Birth Date 06 Jun 1874
Birthplace Cork, Cork, Ireland
Father's Name Jeremiah Collins
Mother's Name Mary Donovan
Reference Number v 10-1 p 208
Straightforward, hopefully. He was registered in the CORK district.
Honora Collins
Gender Female
Birth Date 11 Jun 1875
Birthplace Cork, Ireland
Father's Name Jeremiah Collins
Mother's Name Mary Donovan
Reference Number v 10-2 p 478
Straightforward, hopefully. She was registered in the KINSALE district.
Laurence Collins
Gender Male
Birth Date 06 Jan 1878
Birthplace Cork, Ireland
Father's Name Jeremiah Collins
Mother's Name Mary Donovan Collins
Reference Number v 5 p 415
Straightforward. He was registered in the KINSALE district, and (sadly) died later that year.
From all of this very hasty preliminary research, I believe that there were at least three different families in County Cork with parents of Jeremiah Collins and Mary Donovan in the research period from the 1850's and beyond. Family #1 appeared to be based in the Rosscarbery area. Their events would have been registered in Clonakilty. Family #2 was in the Cork area. Their events were registered in Cork. Family #3, the one where 1878 Lawrence was from, would have registered their events in Kinsale.
All too often, I've seen family trees out on the Internet that might have thrown all three groups of children into the same family. Without checking up on each of these references, I would end up attaching people to the family tree who weren't my people! As it stands, I have no idea if the Kinsale family is related. That's for further research in the years ahead.
I started in the church records, and from there turned up the following:
John,Burgatia,13-Nov-1859,Rosscarbery
Cornelius, ,8-May-1861,Rosscarbery
Patrick,Ross,4-Feb-1863,Rosscarbery
Michael,Barrack Lane,28-Sep-1864,Rosscarbery
Margt,Ross,9-May-1866,Rosscarbery
Jerry,Burgatia,10-May-1868,Rosscarbery
Jas,Burgatia,22-Apr-1870,Rosscarbery
Maurice,,9-Jun-1874,Cork South Parish
I quickly poked around in the online censuses, and in the BMD index at Family search, and found the following:
1901, in Ballynidon, Kinsale Rural DED
Jeremiah Collins, age 68, HoH
Mary Collins, 62, wife
Patrick, brother, 66
Denis, son, 34
Julia, daughter, 30
Jeremiah, son, 26
Lizzie, daughter, 21
Mary Mehigan, granddaughter, 8
In 1911 Jeremiah HoH was deceased and the family was headed by son Denis.
Patrick in Rosscarbery (from the baptismals, above) *may* have ended up in house 28, Burgatia, Rosscarbery DED.
Name Michael Collins
Gender Male
Birth Date 27 Sep 1864
Birthplace 0082,ROSS CARBERY,CORK,IRELAND
Father's Name Jeremiah Collins
Mother's Name Mary Donovan
So far I have found three references on volume 20 for Clonakilty. This looks like it might be on volume 15.
Name Margaret Collins
Gender Female
Birth Date 08 May 1866
Birthplace 0079,ROSS CARBERY,CORK,IRELAND
Father's Name Jeremiah Collins
Mother's Name Mary Donovan
I found one reference on volume 10 for Clonakilty.
Name Jeremiah Collins
Gender Male
Birth Date 09 May 1868
Birthplace Cork, Ireland
Father's Name Jeremiah Collins
Mother's Name Mary Donovan
Reference Number v 10 p 113
That one is pretty straightforward.
Name: James
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Place: 118, ROSSCARBERY, CORK, IRE
Birth Date: 20 Apr 1870
Birthplace: Rosscarbery, Cork, Ire
Father's Name: Jeremiah Collins
Mother's Name: Mary Donovan
Very obscure reference number, and multiple entries in the BMD index in the CLONAKILTY district.
Name Ellen Collins
Gender Female
Birth Date 25 May 1871
Birthplace Cork, Ireland
Father's Name Jeremiah Collins
Mother's Name Mary Donovan
Reference Number v 10 p 487
Straightforward, hopefully. She was registered in the KINSALE district.
Name Mary Collins
Gender Female
Birth Date 03 Jun 1872
Birthplace , , IRELAND
Father's Name Jeremiah Collins
Mother's Name Mary Donovan
She was registered in the CORK district. Not sure if volume 10-1 or 10-2, but on page 208.
Maurice Collins - CORK
Gender Male
Birth Date 06 Jun 1874
Birthplace Cork, Cork, Ireland
Father's Name Jeremiah Collins
Mother's Name Mary Donovan
Reference Number v 10-1 p 208
Straightforward, hopefully. He was registered in the CORK district.
Honora Collins
Gender Female
Birth Date 11 Jun 1875
Birthplace Cork, Ireland
Father's Name Jeremiah Collins
Mother's Name Mary Donovan
Reference Number v 10-2 p 478
Straightforward, hopefully. She was registered in the KINSALE district.
Laurence Collins
Gender Male
Birth Date 06 Jan 1878
Birthplace Cork, Ireland
Father's Name Jeremiah Collins
Mother's Name Mary Donovan Collins
Reference Number v 5 p 415
Straightforward. He was registered in the KINSALE district, and (sadly) died later that year.
From all of this very hasty preliminary research, I believe that there were at least three different families in County Cork with parents of Jeremiah Collins and Mary Donovan in the research period from the 1850's and beyond. Family #1 appeared to be based in the Rosscarbery area. Their events would have been registered in Clonakilty. Family #2 was in the Cork area. Their events were registered in Cork. Family #3, the one where 1878 Lawrence was from, would have registered their events in Kinsale.
All too often, I've seen family trees out on the Internet that might have thrown all three groups of children into the same family. Without checking up on each of these references, I would end up attaching people to the family tree who weren't my people! As it stands, I have no idea if the Kinsale family is related. That's for further research in the years ahead.
Sunday, October 3, 2010
Roggie and Pitchie of Cullomane East
My 87 year old aunt has an amazing memory. Even though no family history has been written down until now, she has been able to tell me about her maternal granddad and his siblings.
Auntie was born in 1923, and she remembers when Denny Dan Larr Collins died in Cullomane East in late 1930. She remembers her mother taking her and brother Humpsey (Humphrey) by horse and cart to Cullomane, and how the river was swollen, and how her mother drove the horse right into the swollen river and how terrified she was seeing the water rise up around the cart.
The visit was certainly burned into her memory. She remembers two children nicknamed "Roggie" and "Pitchie" (that's my best shot at spelling) that were somehow associated with somebody named Dinah. She can't remember Pitchie very well, but she remembers Roggie a curly haired boy and red-haired.
Grandmom's side of the family had many flaxen-haired and red-haired people in it, indeed, Grandmom's hair was a shade of golden red. I reminded her that Denny Dan Larr had an older sister named Diana, and Auntie thinks that could be the association. There certainly isn't anything conclusive about the Diana Collins, age 20, on the shiplist for "Manhattan", 10-Sep-1873, from Queenstown-Liverpool to NY, except that she was from Ireland. If Roggie and Pitchie were related to Denny Dan Larr's sister and they were children in 1930, they would have had at least been her grandchildren.
This is something no genealogist would know, and the local papers don't print this kind of information. Only some older people locally residing in the area would know. So if the nicknames Roggie and Pitchie are familiar to you and you remember those children living in or visiting Cullomane East, please let me know! Better yet, Roggie or Pitchie, if you are out there, please get in touch!
Auntie was born in 1923, and she remembers when Denny Dan Larr Collins died in Cullomane East in late 1930. She remembers her mother taking her and brother Humpsey (Humphrey) by horse and cart to Cullomane, and how the river was swollen, and how her mother drove the horse right into the swollen river and how terrified she was seeing the water rise up around the cart.
The visit was certainly burned into her memory. She remembers two children nicknamed "Roggie" and "Pitchie" (that's my best shot at spelling) that were somehow associated with somebody named Dinah. She can't remember Pitchie very well, but she remembers Roggie a curly haired boy and red-haired.
Grandmom's side of the family had many flaxen-haired and red-haired people in it, indeed, Grandmom's hair was a shade of golden red. I reminded her that Denny Dan Larr had an older sister named Diana, and Auntie thinks that could be the association. There certainly isn't anything conclusive about the Diana Collins, age 20, on the shiplist for "Manhattan", 10-Sep-1873, from Queenstown-Liverpool to NY, except that she was from Ireland. If Roggie and Pitchie were related to Denny Dan Larr's sister and they were children in 1930, they would have had at least been her grandchildren.
This is something no genealogist would know, and the local papers don't print this kind of information. Only some older people locally residing in the area would know. So if the nicknames Roggie and Pitchie are familiar to you and you remember those children living in or visiting Cullomane East, please let me know! Better yet, Roggie or Pitchie, if you are out there, please get in touch!
Saturday, October 2, 2010
Caheragh, Drinagh, and Dromdaleague Tithe Applotment Transcriptions Online
They have not been completely proofread by a local expert yet, but there are transcriptions of the Tithe Applotments for the civil parishes of Caheragh, Drinagh and Dromdaleague available. Refer to this page.
There is work in progress on transcriptions for other parishes, though it may take me a few months to publish them. First I want to coordinate with my proofreader and hope I don't overload him. Second, I will be heading to Salt Lake City for vacation/genealogical research in mid-October to continue research on my own family, to get familiar with other genealogy resources, and to continue developing resources for my own County Cork pages, the tithe transcriptions being part of that effort. Third, I have been taking a much-needed break from driving the 70 mile round-trip to the nearest open Family History Center, and am waiting for the grand reopening of the Los Angeles FHL, which is supposed to happen in late October/early November.
There is work in progress on transcriptions for other parishes, though it may take me a few months to publish them. First I want to coordinate with my proofreader and hope I don't overload him. Second, I will be heading to Salt Lake City for vacation/genealogical research in mid-October to continue research on my own family, to get familiar with other genealogy resources, and to continue developing resources for my own County Cork pages, the tithe transcriptions being part of that effort. Third, I have been taking a much-needed break from driving the 70 mile round-trip to the nearest open Family History Center, and am waiting for the grand reopening of the Los Angeles FHL, which is supposed to happen in late October/early November.
Thursday, September 23, 2010
The family tree of General Michael Collins (1890-1922)
No, I am not going to publish it here, but I often see questions about it out on genealogy forums so I will post on how to obtain a copy of it, as it is copyrighted material.
You can send a message to copy-orders at nli.ie (replace at with a @) and inquire about the family tree compiled by Michael Collins-Powell. It is document #40,430/17. There is a small fee for copying and sending it back to you by regular mail.
By the way, never take somebody's word for it over the Internet what his, or anybody's family history is. Check on sources yourself.
You can send a message to copy-orders at nli.ie (replace at with a @) and inquire about the family tree compiled by Michael Collins-Powell. It is document #40,430/17. There is a small fee for copying and sending it back to you by regular mail.
By the way, never take somebody's word for it over the Internet what his, or anybody's family history is. Check on sources yourself.
Update: If you are looking for information on General Michael Collins, post your questions on public genealogy forums. You'll find a list of forums on this page. You can also use Google to find such forums. Thank you.
Tuesday, September 21, 2010
Miss Marple's guide to genealogy
One of my favorite Agatha Christie novels was a Miss Marple story called "A Murder is Announced." The second victim of the murderer was killed because she knew something about where the murderer was supposed to be at the moment when the first victim was killed, only the murderer wasn't where she *should* have been. Victim #2 exclaimed to her roommate, "She wasn't THERE!"
Miss Marple asked witnesses, "HOW did she say it? Did she say, 'Well, SHE wasn't there.' or did she say, 'She wasn't THERE!' " In the first place, the stress is on SHE, as if the speaker was enumerating the people who were at the party (the scene of the first murder), saying A was there but B wasn't there but C was there. Whereas in the second case, the stress on THERE suggests the speaker thinks a person was supposed to be in a specific place, and was surprised to find that the person was NOT.
Now what on earth has all this to with family history?
After 17 months of doing genealogical research, I have concluded that good research has as much to do with establishing who your ancestors were NOT as who they were. I have done most of the "easy" research and am now starting to grope in the dark researching ancestral lines my family knows nothing about. One of these lines is Driscoll.
Ellen Driscoll married Michael Collins of Lower Lissane 28-Feb-1854 in the Roman Catholic Parish of Caheragh. So clue #1 is that Ellen was from the Caheragh RC parish area, as the groom typically went to the bride's parish for the wedding. Given the number of Driscolls in the area, that's not much to go on, regrettably.
James Driscoll was a baptismal sponsor of the oldest girl Johanna (1856); Johanna Driscoll sponsored Catherine (1860); Dan Driscoll and Mary Driscoll sponsored John (1862); Margaret Driscoll sponsored Michael (1867); and James sponsored Ellen (1875). So clue #2 is that perhaps Ellen had brothers named James and Daniel, maybe sisters named Margaret, Mary, and Johanna. Knowing that Margaret was often abbreviated to look like Mary, I am also keeping in mind that Margaret and Mary could have been one person.
The oldest girl was named Johanna, and Ellen may have had a sister named Johanna. Could Ellen's mother been named Johanna? That is clue #3. If we stretch the traditional Irish naming pattern a bit further, the second son was named John. Could Ellen's father have been named John?
There is one John Driscoll in the tithe applotment of the civil parish of Caheragh. He was in Coarliss (spelled Corless in the tithe applotment), well within the boundaries of the Roman Catholic Parish. I am filing this piece of information in the back of my brain.
Admittedly these are all thin clues. Although some could exist, I have not seen baptismal records state the relationship of sponsors to the family. And the Irish naming pattern was not law.
There is only ONE solid clue in my records. It is in the 1901 census. Michael Collins and Ellen Driscoll Collins were then 80 and 70 years old respectively, living in Lower Lissane. It so happened that Ellen had a niece Noria Driscoll, age 10, staying with them at the time of the census.
If Noria was a niece, she would have been a daughter of one of Ellen's brothers. Perhaps given the age difference, she was a grand niece. But the important thing is there was another Driscoll body in the household, and it's recorded on paper. (It is a possibility that one of Ellen's sisters or sister's daughters could have married a Driscoll and Noria could have acquired the same surname another way. Even worse, the relationship could have been through a sister of Michael, who could have married a Driscoll. I will keep these possibilities in mind in case my hunt is not successful.)
So the next task became to look for Noria's birth record. That is not as easy as it sounds. My searches for Honora, Nora, or Noria born in 1891 in the FHL PILOT program. turned up Nora b. 1886 in Coronea (father's name Daniel); Norah b. 1888 in Ballingowan in the Whitechurch district of Dungarvan in Co Waterford (father Patrick); Norah b. 1889 Lackarour in Clonakilty (father's name Dan); and Norah b. 1892 in Bantry (father Timothy). None of these sounded right.
I set aside the task of finding Noria for a while, then tried searching PILOT again. Only THEN did I realize that Hanora (with an A) is not indexed to Honora (with an O). So I turned up some additional matches: Hanora b. 1890 in Skeagh (father Patrick); and Hanora b. 1890 in Currabeg (father Michael). These sounded better.
My next task was to match all these birth records to families in the 1901 census and to make sure that all Noras were with their families, in other words, that all Noras were where I EXPECTED THEM TO BE, much like how the second victim in the story I mentioned expected a person to be in a particular place at a particular time.
Present and accounted for in the 1901 census:
Nora, in Coronea, is age 15,
Norah, in Whitechurch, is Norah, age 13,
Norah, in Lackarour, is Hanora, age 11,
Norah, in Bantry, is Nora, age 8,
Hanora, in Skeagh, is Nora, age 11,
But Hanora, Currabeg, wasn't THERE. Just like in the story.
Her sisters are listed, her father Michael was a widower, but Hanora was missing.
By no means does this prove that Noria Driscoll staying in Lower Lissane was the daughter of Michael Driscoll of Currabeg, but this is the ONLY lead I have that makes sense.
Miss Marple asked witnesses, "HOW did she say it? Did she say, 'Well, SHE wasn't there.' or did she say, 'She wasn't THERE!' " In the first place, the stress is on SHE, as if the speaker was enumerating the people who were at the party (the scene of the first murder), saying A was there but B wasn't there but C was there. Whereas in the second case, the stress on THERE suggests the speaker thinks a person was supposed to be in a specific place, and was surprised to find that the person was NOT.
Now what on earth has all this to with family history?
After 17 months of doing genealogical research, I have concluded that good research has as much to do with establishing who your ancestors were NOT as who they were. I have done most of the "easy" research and am now starting to grope in the dark researching ancestral lines my family knows nothing about. One of these lines is Driscoll.
Ellen Driscoll married Michael Collins of Lower Lissane 28-Feb-1854 in the Roman Catholic Parish of Caheragh. So clue #1 is that Ellen was from the Caheragh RC parish area, as the groom typically went to the bride's parish for the wedding. Given the number of Driscolls in the area, that's not much to go on, regrettably.
James Driscoll was a baptismal sponsor of the oldest girl Johanna (1856); Johanna Driscoll sponsored Catherine (1860); Dan Driscoll and Mary Driscoll sponsored John (1862); Margaret Driscoll sponsored Michael (1867); and James sponsored Ellen (1875). So clue #2 is that perhaps Ellen had brothers named James and Daniel, maybe sisters named Margaret, Mary, and Johanna. Knowing that Margaret was often abbreviated to look like Mary, I am also keeping in mind that Margaret and Mary could have been one person.
The oldest girl was named Johanna, and Ellen may have had a sister named Johanna. Could Ellen's mother been named Johanna? That is clue #3. If we stretch the traditional Irish naming pattern a bit further, the second son was named John. Could Ellen's father have been named John?
There is one John Driscoll in the tithe applotment of the civil parish of Caheragh. He was in Coarliss (spelled Corless in the tithe applotment), well within the boundaries of the Roman Catholic Parish. I am filing this piece of information in the back of my brain.
Admittedly these are all thin clues. Although some could exist, I have not seen baptismal records state the relationship of sponsors to the family. And the Irish naming pattern was not law.
There is only ONE solid clue in my records. It is in the 1901 census. Michael Collins and Ellen Driscoll Collins were then 80 and 70 years old respectively, living in Lower Lissane. It so happened that Ellen had a niece Noria Driscoll, age 10, staying with them at the time of the census.
If Noria was a niece, she would have been a daughter of one of Ellen's brothers. Perhaps given the age difference, she was a grand niece. But the important thing is there was another Driscoll body in the household, and it's recorded on paper. (It is a possibility that one of Ellen's sisters or sister's daughters could have married a Driscoll and Noria could have acquired the same surname another way. Even worse, the relationship could have been through a sister of Michael, who could have married a Driscoll. I will keep these possibilities in mind in case my hunt is not successful.)
So the next task became to look for Noria's birth record. That is not as easy as it sounds. My searches for Honora, Nora, or Noria born in 1891 in the FHL PILOT program. turned up Nora b. 1886 in Coronea (father's name Daniel); Norah b. 1888 in Ballingowan in the Whitechurch district of Dungarvan in Co Waterford (father Patrick); Norah b. 1889 Lackarour in Clonakilty (father's name Dan); and Norah b. 1892 in Bantry (father Timothy). None of these sounded right.
I set aside the task of finding Noria for a while, then tried searching PILOT again. Only THEN did I realize that Hanora (with an A) is not indexed to Honora (with an O). So I turned up some additional matches: Hanora b. 1890 in Skeagh (father Patrick); and Hanora b. 1890 in Currabeg (father Michael). These sounded better.
My next task was to match all these birth records to families in the 1901 census and to make sure that all Noras were with their families, in other words, that all Noras were where I EXPECTED THEM TO BE, much like how the second victim in the story I mentioned expected a person to be in a particular place at a particular time.
Present and accounted for in the 1901 census:
Nora, in Coronea, is age 15,
Norah, in Whitechurch, is Norah, age 13,
Norah, in Lackarour, is Hanora, age 11,
Norah, in Bantry, is Nora, age 8,
Hanora, in Skeagh, is Nora, age 11,
But Hanora, Currabeg, wasn't THERE. Just like in the story.
Her sisters are listed, her father Michael was a widower, but Hanora was missing.
By no means does this prove that Noria Driscoll staying in Lower Lissane was the daughter of Michael Driscoll of Currabeg, but this is the ONLY lead I have that makes sense.
Thursday, July 8, 2010
Brick Wall in Adrigole
I have made strides in reconstructing the Larrys from Adrigole. Unfortunately, I have run smack into the proverbial genealogy brick wall due to lack of vital records.
The Larrys "started" with Lawrence Collins, who died in 1867, a widower, with a Jeremiah Collins present at death. From a calculation off his death record, Larr was born around 1783. He was my triple-great-grandfather.
Great-great grandfather Daniel Collins was known as "Danny Larr" - a son of Larr. Danny Larr died in 1894 and from a calculation off his death record was born around 1814. Danny married one Mary Mahony and they were settled in Cullomane East, near Bantry. Danny was there in the Caheragh Tithe Applotment in 1852.
There was a Jeremiah Collins who died in 1903 in Adrigole at the age of 82, a well-known agriculturalist and a long-time member of the Board of Guardians. He was married to Mary Hourihane. Their first son, Lawrence, was baptized 13-Sep-1857. I think Lawrence may have at one time run for the Board of Guardians seat his father once had, but I don't think he won the seat. If I have the relationships worked out correctly, this Lawrence eventually moved to Brade and married Elizabeth Sullivan from Reen in 1904. The marriage record shows two Hourihanes as witnesses. In 1924 Lawrence moved from Brade to Lissard (south of Skibbereen town) and he died in 1929. As for the other children, the first daughter was Catherine, who went on to marry a James Collins from Knockaphreane (down towards Baltimore); they eventually moved to Lick (I think this is Licknavar, just southwest of Skibbereen town). Son Jeremiah married Elizabeth Mary (Lily) Wilson from Corron, Leap 17-Apr-1919. Son Daniel became the Very Reverend Daniel Canon Collins, who spent time in Glasgow; he died in 1934. Son John became the Rev John Collins and served as the "estimable curate" of Clonakilty.
From a calculation off of Jeremiah's death notice, I figured he was born about 1821.
Another known Adrigole Collins family is that of John Collins and Catherine Shiely - or Sheahy, or something like that. Their first son was also Lawrence, baptized 4-Jun-1854. John died in 1886, Catherine died in 1905. Unfortunately, things get very confusing in Catherine's funeral write-up in the Southern Star. It says her brother-in-law Jeremiah of Adrigole was one of the mourners. Jeremiah died 2 years earlier, so a Jeremiah there could have been her son or her nephew by marriage. And it says another brother-in-law mourner was Lawrence in Brade. This would have been her nephew by marriage - Jeremiah's son.
From a calculation off of John's death record, I figured he was born about 1818.
Lawrence son of John had a baptismal sponsor Lawrence Collins. I don't have a further clue as to the baptismal sponsor's identity - though I am aware of a Lawrence Collins
of Ballyriree, Kilmacabea parish who married Mary Hayes in 1866 when he was 26 (Ballyriree Lawrence's father was named John).
Assuming that my family is correct about great-great-grandfather Daniel "Danny Larr" Collins being a son of Larr, I thought there was a good chance John and Jeremiah were also sons of Larr, and asked Skibbereen Heritage to do a search. I thought Danny Larr would have been too old to be in the baptismals, but surely John and Jeremiah would be there.
Nothing.
Skibbereen Heritage couldn't find any Collinses in Adrigole around those dates, though Larr is clearly in the 1825 Castlehaven Tithe Applotment with a "Jerry."
Even if the years had been slightly off I would have expected to at at least found the youngest - Jeremiah, in the baptismals. My conclusion for now is that the Larrys were transplants from elsewhere. And to find out more about the Larrys, I will probably need access to some rather unconventional historical records, such as Board of Guardian meeting notes.
I am starting to wonder about Rosscarbery as their origin, as I've seen Collinses named Jeremiah and Lawrence out of there. Lawrence Collins and Mary Hayes may have moved to Rosscarbery. There was a Rosscarbery Jeremiah Collins married to Mary Donovan, and they had a son Lawrence in 1878.
The Larrys were terrific agriculturalists (Grandmom was an amazing grower and so was Uncle Denis when he was actively doing so), so the Rosscarbery Agricultural Society and annual fair immediately come to mind. Therefore, to successfully dig deeper back into this family, I may eventually have to dig up old Society notes to see if the Larrys were involved.
The Larrys "started" with Lawrence Collins, who died in 1867, a widower, with a Jeremiah Collins present at death. From a calculation off his death record, Larr was born around 1783. He was my triple-great-grandfather.
Great-great grandfather Daniel Collins was known as "Danny Larr" - a son of Larr. Danny Larr died in 1894 and from a calculation off his death record was born around 1814. Danny married one Mary Mahony and they were settled in Cullomane East, near Bantry. Danny was there in the Caheragh Tithe Applotment in 1852.
There was a Jeremiah Collins who died in 1903 in Adrigole at the age of 82, a well-known agriculturalist and a long-time member of the Board of Guardians. He was married to Mary Hourihane. Their first son, Lawrence, was baptized 13-Sep-1857. I think Lawrence may have at one time run for the Board of Guardians seat his father once had, but I don't think he won the seat. If I have the relationships worked out correctly, this Lawrence eventually moved to Brade and married Elizabeth Sullivan from Reen in 1904. The marriage record shows two Hourihanes as witnesses. In 1924 Lawrence moved from Brade to Lissard (south of Skibbereen town) and he died in 1929. As for the other children, the first daughter was Catherine, who went on to marry a James Collins from Knockaphreane (down towards Baltimore); they eventually moved to Lick (I think this is Licknavar, just southwest of Skibbereen town). Son Jeremiah married Elizabeth Mary (Lily) Wilson from Corron, Leap 17-Apr-1919. Son Daniel became the Very Reverend Daniel Canon Collins, who spent time in Glasgow; he died in 1934. Son John became the Rev John Collins and served as the "estimable curate" of Clonakilty.
From a calculation off of Jeremiah's death notice, I figured he was born about 1821.
Another known Adrigole Collins family is that of John Collins and Catherine Shiely - or Sheahy, or something like that. Their first son was also Lawrence, baptized 4-Jun-1854. John died in 1886, Catherine died in 1905. Unfortunately, things get very confusing in Catherine's funeral write-up in the Southern Star. It says her brother-in-law Jeremiah of Adrigole was one of the mourners. Jeremiah died 2 years earlier, so a Jeremiah there could have been her son or her nephew by marriage. And it says another brother-in-law mourner was Lawrence in Brade. This would have been her nephew by marriage - Jeremiah's son.
From a calculation off of John's death record, I figured he was born about 1818.
Lawrence son of John had a baptismal sponsor Lawrence Collins. I don't have a further clue as to the baptismal sponsor's identity - though I am aware of a Lawrence Collins
of Ballyriree, Kilmacabea parish who married Mary Hayes in 1866 when he was 26 (Ballyriree Lawrence's father was named John).
Assuming that my family is correct about great-great-grandfather Daniel "Danny Larr" Collins being a son of Larr, I thought there was a good chance John and Jeremiah were also sons of Larr, and asked Skibbereen Heritage to do a search. I thought Danny Larr would have been too old to be in the baptismals, but surely John and Jeremiah would be there.
Nothing.
Skibbereen Heritage couldn't find any Collinses in Adrigole around those dates, though Larr is clearly in the 1825 Castlehaven Tithe Applotment with a "Jerry."
Even if the years had been slightly off I would have expected to at at least found the youngest - Jeremiah, in the baptismals. My conclusion for now is that the Larrys were transplants from elsewhere. And to find out more about the Larrys, I will probably need access to some rather unconventional historical records, such as Board of Guardian meeting notes.
I am starting to wonder about Rosscarbery as their origin, as I've seen Collinses named Jeremiah and Lawrence out of there. Lawrence Collins and Mary Hayes may have moved to Rosscarbery. There was a Rosscarbery Jeremiah Collins married to Mary Donovan, and they had a son Lawrence in 1878.
The Larrys were terrific agriculturalists (Grandmom was an amazing grower and so was Uncle Denis when he was actively doing so), so the Rosscarbery Agricultural Society and annual fair immediately come to mind. Therefore, to successfully dig deeper back into this family, I may eventually have to dig up old Society notes to see if the Larrys were involved.
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