Patrick and Catherine both came from Collins families outside Drimoleague, one of the *many* Collins families I am investigating in the area.
I think Catherine was the daughter of Michael Collins and Mary Donovan of Lower Lissane. The 1911 census says she was 78, which would fit with an 1833 birth year. (Her age seems way off in the 1901 census.)
In a prior post I "assigned" a Catherine Collins, born 1820 in Lissane, to a Donovan family in Lissalohorig. Now I am assigning another Catherine Collins, born 1833, to this Bawnnahow family. Their fertility windows are being taken into account, with an assumption that women stopped having babies somewhere between 45 and 50. Beyond 50 is starting to push the limit.
There was a 13 year span for the births of the Lissalohirig children: 1852 - 1865.
There was a 15 year span for the Bawnnahow family: 1860 - 1875. It is considerably more difficult fitting 1820 Catherine in this scenario, having nine children between the ages of 40 and 55. 1833 Catherine is a much better candidate.
Anyway...
Patrick's original family is a bit harder to pin down, but since this family lived in Bawnnahow South that's where I have started to look. The godparents of Pat's and Catherine's second child Mary (1861), were Simon Collins and Johanna Driscoll. Simon and Johanna had a son Patrick baptized in 1834. Patrick's and Catherine's first child, Johanna (1860), could have been named after Johanna Driscoll. But they didn't have a known son named Simon. So maybe Simon Collins and Johanna Driscoll were a related family.
There was another family, Patrick Collins and Mary Cadogan, who also had a son Patrick in 1834. Since Patrick's and Catherine's first son was Patrick, this appears to be a better fit. But if Patrick and Catherine both had mothers named Mary, it doesn't explain how their first child was named Johanna. If these are the correct families for Patrick and Catherine, there must have been another reason for how Johanna came to be named.
The Bawnnahow children were: Johanna (1860), Mary (1861), Catherine (1862), Patrick (1867), James (1868), Honora (1871), John (1873), Patrick again (1874), and Humphrey (1875). I will have to verify the two Patricks when I have a chance to look at the civil registration records.
The witnesses to the church events of the Bawnnahow family were: Michael Collins (her father?) and Catherine Collins; William Harnedy and Ellen Neill; Simon Collins and Johanna Driscoll; James Collins and Mary Collins; Pat Donovan and Honora Collins; James Collins and Ellen Hurley; Patrick Donovan and Johanna Mahony; John Sullivan and Hannah Collins; William Harnedy and Eliza Hourihan; and Daniel Harnedy and Honora Sullivan. (Notice there are no Cadogan witnesses.)
A sticking point is the presence of son Humphrey in 1875 (who, incidentally, is grossly mistranscribed as "Helen" in the online church records). If I have found the correct Catherine as the mother, she had an older brother (a rather mysterious character) and probably an uncle named Humphrey (deceased by the the time his grand-nephew was born), and so her son could have been their namesake. Why didn't Patrick and Catherine use the name Michael, after her father, prior to using the name Humphrey ? Maybe they thought there were too many Michaels running around - but Humphrey would stand out.
Humphrey became a priest and taught at Niagara University in the United States. He died during the flu epidemic in 1919.
Son James married one Mary McCarthy before 1901. The family is in both Ireland censuses. Son Humphrey (1910) became a local Drimoleague creamery manager, married Ellen McCarthy, and died in 1975.
The Family Search ID of Catherine Collins is KCDY-BC8. She and her original Lissane family are in Family Search Family Tree. No family data for Patrick Collins has been entered yet as his family is still being researched.
6 comments:
My partner is related to Mahony family of Clodagh Drimoleague. His grandfather was Jeremiah Mahony b 1882. His great grandfather was Patrick Mahony wife Jane other children were Helena, Denis, George, John and Patrick. I believe some of these went to America. Are these names any help in your quest for linking your Mahonys and Clodagh?
email annegodfrey137@gmail.com
regards
Anne
Hi Anne,
I'm not sure why a comment about the Mahonys of Clodagh is attached here under Collinses of Bawnnahow, but here goes.
The Mahony names in Clodagh are not particularly helpful, as some given names like Patrick, Helena, Denis, etc. are very common. What could eventually be helpful is if a man named Mahony descended from the Clodagh Mahonys participated fully in the O'Mahony DNA project, provided a family tree to the project, etc.
I have been working on getting a male descendant from Bredagh tested, and there is a candidate lined up. We are waiting for the next good test sale opportunity. I hope to have him tested within a year.
A non-match between a Clodagh Mahony and a Bredagh Mahony would indicate they weren't the same line, but people with the same surname living within the same townland may not necessarily have been closely related - there could have been different Mahony lines in Clodagh.
Thanks for your interest. -- Susan
My great great grandmother was Mary (Collins) Brien born in December of 1841 to Charles Collins and Mary Driscoll in Bawnahow. She was their first born after their Feb 1841 marriage. Any idea how and if they are related to your Bawnahow Collinses? Mary had siblings who were the following. Simon, Patrick, Michael, Norry and Catherine (that I know of). On another site, someone states that Charles Collins died in the Skibbereen Workhouse in July of 1896 and they say that's what it says on his death record. So I assume they've seen it and it's legitimate. Anyway, let me know if you know who these families are connected. Thanks! Dan O'Brien My email is genealogyjourneys1@gmail.com
Hello Dan,
Wish I could relate Charles Collins to the other Bawnnahow Collinses but afraid I cannot. I would need a yDNA test on a direct patriline descendant of Charles to know where he fits in among the Collinses in the area.
Best wishes and have a good New Year,
Susan
My Grandfather was Humphrey Collins ( his wife was Nelli (McCarthy). Humphreys father was James Collins, Bawnahow was the home place. Humphrey was a Creamery Manager.He had a brother Jack ( priest) and a sister Gertrude ( a nun). Humphrey and Nellie had 5 children, the eldest James (Jimmy) then my Dad (Pat)- both live/lived locally. My father is deceased now. Also 3 daughters , all living in Co. Cork as do some of their children.
if you need any info or want to share info happy to connect.
Niamh
Niamh!
I DO apologize for such a late reply, I don't check the blog often as I don't think people find it particularly useful. I do send Jimmy in Dromasta Christmas cards but don't hear from him. If you'd like to talk further, please message skibbgirl at ancestry.com and I will give you further contact info. Hoping you see this!
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