I have had many conversations with Aunt Peg and it is no surprise that she and her siblings were about as confused as I am about family relationships. The names keep repeating generation after generation. She said the only person who *knew* who everybody was was Granddad.
(Sigh) GRO sent back my Ellen McCarthy request with no matches. Apparently my request for an Ellen McCarthy with a mother named Mary was interpreted as Mary COLLINS, which they could not find. So I'm not sure where to go from here...
GRO did send me the Ellen McCarthy-Patrick Maher 1903 marriage record as well as Ellen Maher's death record. It shows Ellen living in Tooreen at the time of the marriage. The Mahers were not "indigenous" to the area and came from further up north. Patrick Maher, like his father, was a steward, whatever that meant. The marriage record lists Ellen's father Cornelius also as a steward, which has me confused. On the Margaret McCarthy-Humphrey Collins marriage record from 1890, Cornelius McCarthy is a farmer. So... did he change careers? Or are we talking about two different Cornelius McCarthys? Were Ellen and Margaret really sisters? Or were they perhaps cousins? Or was Ellen a niece of Margaret's?
I banged around the 1911 census records again and thought about widow Mary McCarthy in Lissane Upper. I found what I suspect is the corresponding record in 1901, only she was married to a Daniel McCarthy, not Michael. So this is not Greatgranddad Denis's oldest sister Mary, as far as I can tell.
I kept looking around the Bredagh D.E.D. area of the 1911, and stumbled across a Michael and Norah McCarthy in Derryduff. They were married 2 years, had no children. Norah is listed as 34 years old. That would make her birth year about 1877.
Derryduff sounded familiar. So did Nora McCarthy. Sure enough, on Grandmom's and Granddad's marriage record, there is a Nora McCarthy who witnessed the marriage. And the place of residence for both Grandmom and Granddad at the time of the marriage is Derryduv (Derryduff). It has to be the same Nora.
Only there is a new problem. The family folklore states that Grandmom was raised by paternal aunts. I don't know of any aunt named Nora. At least Skibbereen Heritage Centre did not provide me one! So either Greatgranddad Denis had a sibling named Nora I just don't know about, or perhaps she is the daughter of his older brother Jeremiah (AKA "William") or maybe one of Greatgranddad's sisters married a Collins and had Nora.
After hitting the LDS records again, I did find a Nora Collins born in 1878, in Ballintotis, which is just beyond the city of Cork. And her father is ... William Collins.
William did not stay on the farm in Colomane East, which is a mystery as traditionally that's what the oldest sons did. Why did William leave Colomane? Perhaps he came back to the area, as he is a witness in the 1904 marriage of brother Denis to Ellen Hurley. I am driving myself crazy with more questions.
I sent away for the marriage record of Nora Collins and Michael McCarthy. It will say what her father's name was and where she was from.
Along those lines, I sent away for the death record of a Humphrey Collins in 1873. I am wondering if he is Granddad's paternal greatgrandfather.
I've also sent away for Greatgranddad Denis's death certificate. Aunt Peg told me she distinctly remembered traveling by cart to go see him around the time he was dying. She was a little girl, and Mom was an infant or toddler, babysat by Mary Maher. That would put Greatgranddad's date of death around 1929 or 1930. We were under the impression he died much earlier.
Friday, November 27, 2009
Saturday, October 17, 2009
Batting Zero today on the research!
I drove all the way down to the Orange Family History Center. This was my worst day down there, ever!
First of all, my beloved first roll of film from the the 1901 Ireland census in Cork was mistakenly sent back, even after I had put a hold on it. So I have to get it back. (sigh)
I searched the entire second census roll on hold for age-appropriate Ellen McCarthys (nothing - but plenty of McCarthys and plenty of Ellens!). I also took note of a few Hurleys.
That first roll might have my age-appropriate Ellen McCarthy on it, so I have to get it back.
Then the roll I ordered for Kilmocomoge parish is the wrong one. Oh yes, it's got part of Kilmocomoge, but only the parts of the parish that lie in Bantry Rural and Bantry Urban District Electoral Divisions. The catalog does not give you that fine detail (another sigh). So I ordered two more rolls of film with the rest of Kilmocomoge parish on them. I need the Kealkill D.E.D. That's where John Hurley and Catherine Sullivan lived, maybe with their daughter Ellen!
I told the FHC that I would be happy to purchase film for them to just put in the permanent collection. It would spare me the grief of having to keep putting film on long-term hold. I don't know why they don't do that!
When you do this kind of research, you have to keep track of who does NOT match as well as who does. Because otherwise you'll forget if you've chased down a particular record or not. And that gets to be a huge job. Unfortunately I got sloppy keeping track of all the Ellen Hurleys. I need a break. (third sigh)
There is always the alternative of sending an Ellen Hurley research request to GRO. It's something like 4 Euro per lookup and 6 Euro if they make a copy of something in a register. It's far cheaper than spending 40-50 Euro per certificate through one of these online genealogy certificate services. It takes about six weeks, but they'll pound the pavement for you. The alternative is to scour all the LDS birth index rolls, but you have to order those rolls first. That could take weeks. Then you go through those and make a list of entries that match what you are looking for, and then you have to order the actual register film. That takes many more weeks. So GRO really does provide a great service!
First of all, my beloved first roll of film from the the 1901 Ireland census in Cork was mistakenly sent back, even after I had put a hold on it. So I have to get it back. (sigh)
I searched the entire second census roll on hold for age-appropriate Ellen McCarthys (nothing - but plenty of McCarthys and plenty of Ellens!). I also took note of a few Hurleys.
That first roll might have my age-appropriate Ellen McCarthy on it, so I have to get it back.
Then the roll I ordered for Kilmocomoge parish is the wrong one. Oh yes, it's got part of Kilmocomoge, but only the parts of the parish that lie in Bantry Rural and Bantry Urban District Electoral Divisions. The catalog does not give you that fine detail (another sigh). So I ordered two more rolls of film with the rest of Kilmocomoge parish on them. I need the Kealkill D.E.D. That's where John Hurley and Catherine Sullivan lived, maybe with their daughter Ellen!
I told the FHC that I would be happy to purchase film for them to just put in the permanent collection. It would spare me the grief of having to keep putting film on long-term hold. I don't know why they don't do that!
When you do this kind of research, you have to keep track of who does NOT match as well as who does. Because otherwise you'll forget if you've chased down a particular record or not. And that gets to be a huge job. Unfortunately I got sloppy keeping track of all the Ellen Hurleys. I need a break. (third sigh)
There is always the alternative of sending an Ellen Hurley research request to GRO. It's something like 4 Euro per lookup and 6 Euro if they make a copy of something in a register. It's far cheaper than spending 40-50 Euro per certificate through one of these online genealogy certificate services. It takes about six weeks, but they'll pound the pavement for you. The alternative is to scour all the LDS birth index rolls, but you have to order those rolls first. That could take weeks. Then you go through those and make a list of entries that match what you are looking for, and then you have to order the actual register film. That takes many more weeks. So GRO really does provide a great service!
McCarthys McCarthys everywhere!
I have a few notes about McCarthy relatives from cousin Michael and Uncle Denis, plus what cousin Jeanne passed on from Aunt Eileen. So I thought it was about time to start tracking down McCarthys in Granddad's family.
Cousin Michael said that Granddad's mom Margaret "had many sisters" and one "was called Ellen." So that was a start. I had Margaret McCarthy Collins' death record and had an approximate year of birth. In addition, the marriage record of Margaret McCarthy and Humphrey Collins says that her father's name was Cornelius. And I knew from the 1901 and 1911 census records that her mother's name was Mary. So that should be plenty to go on, right?
I started searching the Internet, and lo and behold, there is a lady named Leila descended from a McCarthy family in Lissane, like mine. Father's name was Cornelius. The mother's name was Mary Collins. A daughter Margaret was born 1862, which would have been close to the time Granddad's mom was born. She had a sister Ellen, born 1854. Okay, this sounded extremely promising!
I emailed Margaret at Skibbereen Heritage Centre and asked her to search the baptismals for McCarthys from Lissane. I emailed her information about the family tree I found on the Internet, and concluded with a smiley face and a "This should be easy!"
Famous last words. This all happened before I talked to Aunt Peg.
Aunt Peg said that sister Ellen was Ellen McCarthy Maher. And that her daughter Mary Maher used to babysit my mom when she was an infant. Hmmm.
I searched the 1911 census for Mahers. Sure enough, there is Ellen Maher in Maulbrack, with her husband Patrick and daughter Mary. But something was not quite right. This Ellen was only about 40 in 1911.
She and Patrick got married in 1903. And it looks like she died in 1931.
I panicked when I realized I might have sent Skibbereen Heritage Centre on a wild goose chase. I emailed Margaret as fast as I could - "WAIT! That's not the right Ellen McCarthy!"
I corresponded with Leila, and we swapped information. After looking at her family tree, I concluded that we must somehow be related, but we are somehow off by a generation. The names are so similar and the hometown is the same! But I need an Ellen McCarthy some 15-20 years younger than her Ellen McCarthy to fit my family profile. Our family trees must be tangled up together somehow!
On a good note, Margaret at Skibbereen Heritage Centre found the baptismal records of Humphrey Collins and at least some of his siblings, and also the marriage date of the parents. His father was Michael Collins and his mother was Ellen Driscoll.
Well now, on my USB drive I have a 1901 census record of an elderly Michael and Ellen Collins, with her niece staying with them. The niece is a Driscoll. They live very close by Humphrey and Margaret.
It's amazing, when you get one little piece of information, how so much can fall into place so quickly.
And thank God I have ancestors named Humphrey Collins. It's a rare name in Ireland, but not in my family. Thank you, ancestors, for naming at least a few of your children with rare names so I could track them down on the computer! :) I am drowning in Marys, Margarets, Ellens, Denises, and Daniels. It would be so nice to see an occasional Bridget. Or a Nora. A Sheila. A Bernadette. A Sean. How about some more Patricks? Anything!
In the meantime, I've done some initial lookups on the birth records of all the Ellen McCarthys born in Skibbereen and Dunmanway districts between 1865 and 1875. I've sent a list of 17 references from 1870 to 1874 off to the GRO, with instructions to look them up and send me only those matches with father = Cornelius and mother = Mary. (Sigh.)
Cousin Michael said that Granddad's mom Margaret "had many sisters" and one "was called Ellen." So that was a start. I had Margaret McCarthy Collins' death record and had an approximate year of birth. In addition, the marriage record of Margaret McCarthy and Humphrey Collins says that her father's name was Cornelius. And I knew from the 1901 and 1911 census records that her mother's name was Mary. So that should be plenty to go on, right?
I started searching the Internet, and lo and behold, there is a lady named Leila descended from a McCarthy family in Lissane, like mine. Father's name was Cornelius. The mother's name was Mary Collins. A daughter Margaret was born 1862, which would have been close to the time Granddad's mom was born. She had a sister Ellen, born 1854. Okay, this sounded extremely promising!
I emailed Margaret at Skibbereen Heritage Centre and asked her to search the baptismals for McCarthys from Lissane. I emailed her information about the family tree I found on the Internet, and concluded with a smiley face and a "This should be easy!"
Famous last words. This all happened before I talked to Aunt Peg.
Aunt Peg said that sister Ellen was Ellen McCarthy Maher. And that her daughter Mary Maher used to babysit my mom when she was an infant. Hmmm.
I searched the 1911 census for Mahers. Sure enough, there is Ellen Maher in Maulbrack, with her husband Patrick and daughter Mary. But something was not quite right. This Ellen was only about 40 in 1911.
She and Patrick got married in 1903. And it looks like she died in 1931.
I panicked when I realized I might have sent Skibbereen Heritage Centre on a wild goose chase. I emailed Margaret as fast as I could - "WAIT! That's not the right Ellen McCarthy!"
I corresponded with Leila, and we swapped information. After looking at her family tree, I concluded that we must somehow be related, but we are somehow off by a generation. The names are so similar and the hometown is the same! But I need an Ellen McCarthy some 15-20 years younger than her Ellen McCarthy to fit my family profile. Our family trees must be tangled up together somehow!
On a good note, Margaret at Skibbereen Heritage Centre found the baptismal records of Humphrey Collins and at least some of his siblings, and also the marriage date of the parents. His father was Michael Collins and his mother was Ellen Driscoll.
Well now, on my USB drive I have a 1901 census record of an elderly Michael and Ellen Collins, with her niece staying with them. The niece is a Driscoll. They live very close by Humphrey and Margaret.
It's amazing, when you get one little piece of information, how so much can fall into place so quickly.
And thank God I have ancestors named Humphrey Collins. It's a rare name in Ireland, but not in my family. Thank you, ancestors, for naming at least a few of your children with rare names so I could track them down on the computer! :) I am drowning in Marys, Margarets, Ellens, Denises, and Daniels. It would be so nice to see an occasional Bridget. Or a Nora. A Sheila. A Bernadette. A Sean. How about some more Patricks? Anything!
In the meantime, I've done some initial lookups on the birth records of all the Ellen McCarthys born in Skibbereen and Dunmanway districts between 1865 and 1875. I've sent a list of 17 references from 1870 to 1874 off to the GRO, with instructions to look them up and send me only those matches with father = Cornelius and mother = Mary. (Sigh.)
Sunday, October 4, 2009
Research Updates
I was able to find a birth record for Grandmom's uncle Daniel Collins for September 21, 1865, which definitively shows that Grandmom's paternal grandmother was Mary Mahoney (not Margaret).
I found the household of Grandmom's dad Denis Collins in Colomane East in the 1901 census. At the time his first wife Kate was still alive. Sister Johanna (Hannah) and mother Mary Mahoney Collins were living with them.
Grandmom's granddad Daniel Collins is definitely in Colomane East in Griffith's Valuation.
I poked around the 1901 census records, but without further information am utterly unable to identify which records are those of relatives. There are five McCarthy households in Upper Lissane and four Collins households in Lower Lissane. I am only certain of Granddad's household in Tooreen.
I got a nice stack of paper back from the Ireland GRO. I now have information about: Ellen Hurley Collins death, Humphrey Michael Collins death, Margaret McCarthy Collins death and that of her daughter, Margaret Collins; and Humphrey Michael Collins and Margaret McCarthy marriage. This last one was super-important because it had the name of Margaret McCarthy's father, which was Cornelius. Also of note is that Humphrey was living in Lower Lissane, while Margaret was living in Upper Lissane. This information has been updated in charts on the Collins website.
I thought that maybe Grandmom's uncle Daniel might have been married in the 1890's, and I tore through the GRO records looking for any marriage record that showed a Daniel Collins groom in which his father was Daniel, Denis, or Lawrence (Laurence). I am certain at this point that Grandmom's granddad was Daniel, but I thought I would look anyway. With a history of names like "Danny Den Larr" I wasn't sure what to expect. What a goose chase. The marriage records don't usually report the ages of the bride and groom, which makes this even more difficult. There is one Daniel, son of Daniel, married in 1892 in Rath, Skibbereen to Kate Sheehan. (Rath is sort of south of Skibbereen town, out on a peninsula.) Another one is married in February 1895 and says he is 28 years old; that would put him at 1867, about 17 months after the real birth date. The bride was Ann Driscoll.
One of the questions on my mind of course, is, what happened to the older brother of Denis Collins, Jeremiah (or William, as he may have gone by)? Why did he not stay on the Colomane East farm, as it was usually the eldest son who did this, and the younger ones left. It looks like he was a witness at the 1904 wedding of Denis and Ellen. I will probably never know why he left Colomane East.
I sent letters to people in Colomane, Colomane East, and Colomane West along with some genealogical documents asking them if they knew anything about Ellen Hurley and Denis Collins. One person actually responded, and thinks the Collins property was sold back as far as 1930. He believes the family moved to Castledonovan, then to Dunmanway, and thinks that people in Dunmanway might be able to help me. So that is still another lead I need to pursue.
I have a news clipping of a court proceeding in which Humphrey Mickey Collins and a "Mrs. Collins" testified. This was after 1906 (when Margaret McCarthy died) and before 1910, when Humphrey Mickey died, so this definitely looks like Granddad's dad. The question is, who was "Mrs. Collins?" It couldn't have been his wife, since she was already dead. I thought perhaps that she was his mother. A solicitor asked her when she was married, and she said something about how it was around the "year of the big snow." The solicitor then said that would be 1854. So I have to think how I am going to go about looking for marriage records from the mid-1850's.
All research is getting much more difficult now. I still have Ellen Hurley to track down. The McCarthys are a research project unto themselves. I thought at one point Uncle Denis said that Granddad had cousins named Maher, which I have not looked into at all.
It's getting to the point where I may have to wait until I have time to spend a few days in Dublin at the National Library so I can search Roman Catholic records.
I found the household of Grandmom's dad Denis Collins in Colomane East in the 1901 census. At the time his first wife Kate was still alive. Sister Johanna (Hannah) and mother Mary Mahoney Collins were living with them.
Grandmom's granddad Daniel Collins is definitely in Colomane East in Griffith's Valuation.
I poked around the 1901 census records, but without further information am utterly unable to identify which records are those of relatives. There are five McCarthy households in Upper Lissane and four Collins households in Lower Lissane. I am only certain of Granddad's household in Tooreen.
I got a nice stack of paper back from the Ireland GRO. I now have information about: Ellen Hurley Collins death, Humphrey Michael Collins death, Margaret McCarthy Collins death and that of her daughter, Margaret Collins; and Humphrey Michael Collins and Margaret McCarthy marriage. This last one was super-important because it had the name of Margaret McCarthy's father, which was Cornelius. Also of note is that Humphrey was living in Lower Lissane, while Margaret was living in Upper Lissane. This information has been updated in charts on the Collins website.
I thought that maybe Grandmom's uncle Daniel might have been married in the 1890's, and I tore through the GRO records looking for any marriage record that showed a Daniel Collins groom in which his father was Daniel, Denis, or Lawrence (Laurence). I am certain at this point that Grandmom's granddad was Daniel, but I thought I would look anyway. With a history of names like "Danny Den Larr" I wasn't sure what to expect. What a goose chase. The marriage records don't usually report the ages of the bride and groom, which makes this even more difficult. There is one Daniel, son of Daniel, married in 1892 in Rath, Skibbereen to Kate Sheehan. (Rath is sort of south of Skibbereen town, out on a peninsula.) Another one is married in February 1895 and says he is 28 years old; that would put him at 1867, about 17 months after the real birth date. The bride was Ann Driscoll.
One of the questions on my mind of course, is, what happened to the older brother of Denis Collins, Jeremiah (or William, as he may have gone by)? Why did he not stay on the Colomane East farm, as it was usually the eldest son who did this, and the younger ones left. It looks like he was a witness at the 1904 wedding of Denis and Ellen. I will probably never know why he left Colomane East.
I sent letters to people in Colomane, Colomane East, and Colomane West along with some genealogical documents asking them if they knew anything about Ellen Hurley and Denis Collins. One person actually responded, and thinks the Collins property was sold back as far as 1930. He believes the family moved to Castledonovan, then to Dunmanway, and thinks that people in Dunmanway might be able to help me. So that is still another lead I need to pursue.
I have a news clipping of a court proceeding in which Humphrey Mickey Collins and a "Mrs. Collins" testified. This was after 1906 (when Margaret McCarthy died) and before 1910, when Humphrey Mickey died, so this definitely looks like Granddad's dad. The question is, who was "Mrs. Collins?" It couldn't have been his wife, since she was already dead. I thought perhaps that she was his mother. A solicitor asked her when she was married, and she said something about how it was around the "year of the big snow." The solicitor then said that would be 1854. So I have to think how I am going to go about looking for marriage records from the mid-1850's.
All research is getting much more difficult now. I still have Ellen Hurley to track down. The McCarthys are a research project unto themselves. I thought at one point Uncle Denis said that Granddad had cousins named Maher, which I have not looked into at all.
It's getting to the point where I may have to wait until I have time to spend a few days in Dublin at the National Library so I can search Roman Catholic records.
Sunday, September 13, 2009
Still on the hunt for Ellen Hurley
I am still waiting to hear from Ireland GRO regarding the list of research requests I sent. Nobody has even charged my credit card yet so either they are working on it or my request is still sitting on somebody's desk in Roscommon.
In the meantime, I put together a more comprehensive list of Ellen Hurleys born in the 1870's in Skibbereen, Bantry, and Dunmanway. I won't bother with Skull. My list has 36 entries.
And here I thought Ellen Hurley would be easy - much easier than Grandmom Mary Collins. Was I wrong!
Anyway, here is my list. I am asking some Internet genealogy friends with the Ireland BMD CD that LDS no longer sells to look some or all of these up, and let me know which Ellens have a father named John. If they can't or won't do it, this will be the next list I send to Ireland GRO, after I get something back from the first list I sent.
In the meantime, I put together a more comprehensive list of Ellen Hurleys born in the 1870's in Skibbereen, Bantry, and Dunmanway. I won't bother with Skull. My list has 36 entries.
And here I thought Ellen Hurley would be easy - much easier than Grandmom Mary Collins. Was I wrong!
Anyway, here is my list. I am asking some Internet genealogy friends with the Ireland BMD CD that LDS no longer sells to look some or all of these up, and let me know which Ellens have a father named John. If they can't or won't do it, this will be the next list I send to Ireland GRO, after I get something back from the first list I sent.
ELLEN HURLEY/HURLY BIRTHS 1870's
1) Skibbereen, - quarter and year: 1870
INDEX Film #: 101047, Volume: 20, Page: 614,
REGISTRY Film #: 0101219
2) Skibbereen, - quarter and year: 1871
INDEX Film #: 101048, Volume: 10, Page: 736,
REGISTRY Film #: 0255824
3) Skibbereen, - quarter and year: 1871
INDEX Film #: 101048, Volume: 15, Page: 567,
REGISTRY Film #: 0255831
4) Dunmanway, - quarter and year: 1871
INDEX Film #: 101048, Volume: 20, Page: 253,
REGISTRY Film #: 0255838
5) Dunmanway, - quarter and year: 1872
INDEX Film #: 101049, Volume: 5, Page: 290,
REGISTRY Film #: 0255847
6) Bantry, - quarter and year: 1872
INDEX Film #: 101049, Volume: 10, Page: 28,
REGISTRY Film #: 0255855
7) Dunmanway, - quarter and year: 1872
INDEX Film #: 101049, Volume: 15, Page: 225,
REGISTRY Film #: 0255860
8) Dunmanway, - quarter and year: 1873
INDEX Film #: 101050, Volume: 5, Page: 280,
REGISTRY Film #: 0255873
9) Dunmanway, - quarter and year: 1873
INDEX Film #: 101050, Volume: 10, Page: 306,
REGISTRY Film #: 0255882
10) Bantry, - quarter and year: 1873
INDEX Film #: 101050, Volume: 15, Page: 32,
REGISTRY Film #: 0255887
11) Skibbereen, - quarter and year: 1873
INDEX Film #: 101050, Volume: 20, Page: 566,
REGISTRY Film #: 0255892
12) Dunmanway, - quarter and year: 1874
INDEX Film #: 101051, Volume: 5, Page: 265,
REGISTRY Film #: 0255898
13) Dunmanway, - quarter and year: 1874
INDEX Film #: 101051, Volume: 15, Page: 234,
REGISTRY Film #: 0255913
14) Skibbereen, - quarter and year: 1874
INDEX Film #: 101051, Volume: 15, Page: 579,
REGISTRY Film #: 0255913
15) Dunmanway, - quarter and year: 1875
INDEX Film #: 101052, Volume: 5, Page: 257,
REGISTRY Film #: 0255926
16) Bantry, - quarter and year: 1875
INDEX Film #: 101052, Volume: 20, Page: 28,
REGISTRY Film #: 0255943
17) Bantry, - quarter and year: 1875
*** ALREADY HAVE ***
FATHER = JOHN HURLEY,
MOTHER = CATHERINE SULLIVAN,
LOCATION = LISHEEN, GLENGARRIFF
INDEX Film #: 101052, Volume: 10, Page: 39,
REGISTRY Film #: 0255933
18) Skibbereen, - quarter and year: 1875
*** ALREADY SAW ***
FATHER = DANIEL HURLEY,
MOTHER = MARY SULLIVAN,
LOCATION = COOM__?, DRINAGH
INDEX Film #: 101052, Volume: 10, Page: 717,
REGISTRY Film #: 0255933
19) Skibbereen, - quarter and year: 1875
*** ALREADY SAW ***
FATHER = PATRICK HURLEY,
MOTHER = CATHERINE NEIL
INDEX Film #: 101052, Volume: 15, Page: 613,
REGISTRY Film #: 0255938
20) Skibbereen, - quarter and year: 1875
*** ALREADY HAVE ***
FATHER = JOHN HURLEY,
MOTHER = ELLEN DONOVAN,
LOCATION = DERRYLUGGA, ABBYSTROWRY
INDEX Film #: 101052, Volume: 20, Page: 550,
REGISTRY Film #: 0255943
21) Dunmanway, - quarter and year: 1876
INDEX Film #: 101053, Volume: 5, Page: 265,
REGISTRY Film #: 0255950
22) Skibbereen, - quarter and year: 1876
INDEX Film #: 101053, Volume: 5, Page: 623,
REGISTRY Film #: 0255950
23) Skibbereen, - quarter and year: 1876
INDEX Film #: 101053, Volume: 5, Page: 666,
REGISTRY Film #: 0255950
24) Dunmanway, - quarter and year: 1876
INDEX Film #: 101053, Volume: 15, Page: 238,
REGISTRY Film #: 0255961
25) Dunmanway, - quarter and year: 1877
INDEX Film #: 101054, Volume: 10, Page: 282,
REGISTRY Film #: 0255985
26) Dunmanway, - quarter and year: 1877
INDEX Film #: 101054, Volume: 20, Page: 244,
REGISTRY Film #: 0255996
27) Bantry, - quarter and year: Jan - Mar 1878
INDEX Film #: 101055, Volume: 5, Page: 36,
REGISTRY Film #: 0256001
28) Bantry, quarter and year: Jan - Mar 1878
INDEX Film #: 101589, Volume: 5, Page: 22,
not sure about this reference
29) Bantry, - quarter and year: 1878
INDEX Film #: 101050, Volume: 10, Page: 30,
REGISTRY Film #: ?
30) Dunmanway, - quarter and year: Apr - Jun 1878
INDEX Film #: 101055, Volume: 5, Page: 271,
REGISTRY Film #: 0256007
31) Skibbereen, - quarter and year: Apr - Jun 1878
INDEX Film #: 101055, Volume: 5, Page: 681,
REGISTRY Film #: 0256007
32) Bantry, - quarter and year: Jul - Sep 1878
INDEX Film #: 101055, Volume: 5, Page: 22,
REGISTRY Film #: 0256013
33) Dunmanway, - quarter and year: Jul - Sep 1878
INDEX Film #: 101055, Volume: 5, Page: 244,
REGISTRY Film #: 0256013
34) Skibbereen, - quarter and year: Jan - Mar 1879
INDEX Film #: 101056, Volume: 5, Page: 658,
REGISTRY Film #: 0256025
35) Dunmanway, - quarter and year: Jan - Mar 1879
INDEX Film #: 101056, Volume: 5, Page: 266,
REGISTRY Film #: 0256025
36) Dunmanway, - quarter and year: Apr - Jun 1879
INDEX Film #: 101056, Volume: 5, Page: 285,
REGISTRY Film #: 0256031
Saturday, August 29, 2009
Research Updates
I have the following requests in with GRO Ireland:
Photocopies of the following births:
-- Mary COLLINS Colomane, 18-Jun-1906 (Grandmom)
-- Ellen HURLEY Drimoleague?, 25-Feb-1876 (father John Hurley, mother Kate Walsh)
Lookups and photocopies of the following marriages, if found:
Humphrey COLLINS + Margaret MCCARTHY, Apr-Jun 1890, Skibbereen
John HURLEY + Ellen DONOVAN, 1871, Skibbereen
Denis COLLINS + Mary MAHONEY, 1852, Tipperary
Denis COLLINS + Mary MAHONEY, 1851, Rathkeale or Waterford
Lookups and photocopies of several marriages in which one party is Daniel Collins, which I won't bother listing here. I asked for copies only in which his father is Daniel, Lawrence, or Denis.
Lookups and photocopies of these deaths, if found:
Margaret COLLINS, 1906 (one mother, one infant)
Humphrey COLLINS, Jul-Sep 1910
Ellen COLLINS, Apr-Jun 1912
I am reiterating my uncertainty about Ellen Hurley. Margaret at Skibbereen Heritage Centre gave me information for "the only Ellen Hurley she could find baptized in Skibbereen whose father was John Hurley." According to family folklore, Grandmom had brothers Daniel, Denis ("Bob"), and Lawrence, her mother's maiden name was Hurley, and her father was "Danny Den Larr" (Daniel) and his father was "Denny Dan Larr" or something like that. I am reasonably certain that the 1904 marriage record is correct, plus the 1911 census record in Cullomane East is the correct one for Grandmom's household, as all the brothers match. In the census record, the father is Denis, but "Denny Larr" differs from "Danny Larr" by only one vowel. It then follows that Greatgrandmom's name is Ellen Hurley.
I should mention that there are OTHER records in the 1911 that are NEAR matches, and I rejected them for various reasons. I will list the near matches here and why I rejected them:
Coom
The father might be Daniel and there is a brother Daniel but Mary is too young and nothing else matches.
Derrynagree
Father is Denis, mother is Ellen, there are brothers Dan and Denis but no brother Lawrence, plus additional other brothers plus Grandmom did not have sisters. Note: the absence of one sibling is not always a reason to reject a record, as I discovered with Granddad's 1901 household census record. Granddad was nearly six years old and he was not even listed! Was he legitimately absent? Or was the census taker incompetent?
Gortshanecrone
There are brothers Daniel, Denis and Laurence, but Mary is too old and there is another brother Cornelius.
Ahgills
Father is Daniel, there are children Mary, Daniel, and Denis but no Lawrence, and two extra sisters.
So Cullomane East is our best match, and Ellen Hurley is Greatgrandmom. I have the following 1875 Ireland Birth films on order so I can take a closer look at eligible Ellens: #0255933, #0255938, and #0255043. Even if one of these is our Ellen, there is still no way of linking her with the marriage record, 1911 census record, or even the Ellen COLLINS death record that I ordered. So I have started researching Ellens in Bantry and Skull, though I haven't ordered any film yet.
According to the Irish Times, there was a heavy concentration of Hurleys in the Fanlobbus Civil Parish in 1851. This might be out towards Dunmanway, and that's an area I haven't started researching yet. There were some Hurleys in Drinagh and some in Dromdaleague, but there were no Hurleys in Skull, Kilmocomoge, or Killoe parishes (these are in the Bantry district, I think).
I may never be able to conclusively identify an Ellen Hurley from the birth records alone - hence a plan B is in the works to try and contact Hurleys currently in Coolnagarrane, Derrylugga, and Colomane and see if they are willing to tell me anything about their family histories.
TO-DO LIST FOR ELLEN (these aren't ordered yet except where noted):
1872, #255865, #255866, v20, p638, Skull
1872, #255855, v10, p28, Bantry
1873, #255887, v15, p32, Bantry
1875, #255933, v10, p39, Bantry **already on order**
Jan-Mar 1878, #256001, v5, p22, Bantry
Jul-Sep 1878, #256019, v5, p22, Bantry
Search 1870's births for Ellen Hurley in Dunmanway.
Okay, so much for Ellen. What else did I do today at the FHC? Besides start to copy down all the townlands in the District Electoral Divisions for the Bantry area, I again searched the marriage records on film for the early 1850's looking for a Denis or Daniel or Lawrence Collins. There are very few. I also looked for Great-great-granddad Michael Collins' marriage record, based on a snippet of court testimony, I believe from his widow, in 1909, saying that she was married "the year after the big snow." That was about 1853 or 1854. The film did not show anything, but the LDS PILOT database online had two Skibbereen records of interest, so I ordered them:
Michael COLLINS (Greatgranddad Humphrey Michael's dad) Marriage Records:
1865, #101474, v5, p848, Mick Collins
1866, #101478, v10, p363, Michael Collins
And what about Ellen's husband Denis, and his family? The LDS birth index starts in 1864, but fortunately a few siblings were born after that. Daniel Collins, his brother, was baptized in 1865. That was a RARE name for the time, so I ordered the one match I found in Skibbereen:
Daniel COLLINS (Grandmom's uncle) Birth Record:
1865, #101114, v15, p552
Over and out.
Photocopies of the following births:
-- Mary COLLINS Colomane, 18-Jun-1906 (Grandmom)
-- Ellen HURLEY Drimoleague?, 25-Feb-1876 (father John Hurley, mother Kate Walsh)
Lookups and photocopies of the following marriages, if found:
Humphrey COLLINS + Margaret MCCARTHY, Apr-Jun 1890, Skibbereen
John HURLEY + Ellen DONOVAN, 1871, Skibbereen
Denis COLLINS + Mary MAHONEY, 1852, Tipperary
Denis COLLINS + Mary MAHONEY, 1851, Rathkeale or Waterford
Lookups and photocopies of several marriages in which one party is Daniel Collins, which I won't bother listing here. I asked for copies only in which his father is Daniel, Lawrence, or Denis.
Lookups and photocopies of these deaths, if found:
Margaret COLLINS, 1906 (one mother, one infant)
Humphrey COLLINS, Jul-Sep 1910
Ellen COLLINS, Apr-Jun 1912
I am reiterating my uncertainty about Ellen Hurley. Margaret at Skibbereen Heritage Centre gave me information for "the only Ellen Hurley she could find baptized in Skibbereen whose father was John Hurley." According to family folklore, Grandmom had brothers Daniel, Denis ("Bob"), and Lawrence, her mother's maiden name was Hurley, and her father was "Danny Den Larr" (Daniel) and his father was "Denny Dan Larr" or something like that. I am reasonably certain that the 1904 marriage record is correct, plus the 1911 census record in Cullomane East is the correct one for Grandmom's household, as all the brothers match. In the census record, the father is Denis, but "Denny Larr" differs from "Danny Larr" by only one vowel. It then follows that Greatgrandmom's name is Ellen Hurley.
I should mention that there are OTHER records in the 1911 that are NEAR matches, and I rejected them for various reasons. I will list the near matches here and why I rejected them:
Coom
The father might be Daniel and there is a brother Daniel but Mary is too young and nothing else matches.
Derrynagree
Father is Denis, mother is Ellen, there are brothers Dan and Denis but no brother Lawrence, plus additional other brothers plus Grandmom did not have sisters. Note: the absence of one sibling is not always a reason to reject a record, as I discovered with Granddad's 1901 household census record. Granddad was nearly six years old and he was not even listed! Was he legitimately absent? Or was the census taker incompetent?
Gortshanecrone
There are brothers Daniel, Denis and Laurence, but Mary is too old and there is another brother Cornelius.
Ahgills
Father is Daniel, there are children Mary, Daniel, and Denis but no Lawrence, and two extra sisters.
So Cullomane East is our best match, and Ellen Hurley is Greatgrandmom. I have the following 1875 Ireland Birth films on order so I can take a closer look at eligible Ellens: #0255933, #0255938, and #0255043. Even if one of these is our Ellen, there is still no way of linking her with the marriage record, 1911 census record, or even the Ellen COLLINS death record that I ordered. So I have started researching Ellens in Bantry and Skull, though I haven't ordered any film yet.
According to the Irish Times, there was a heavy concentration of Hurleys in the Fanlobbus Civil Parish in 1851. This might be out towards Dunmanway, and that's an area I haven't started researching yet. There were some Hurleys in Drinagh and some in Dromdaleague, but there were no Hurleys in Skull, Kilmocomoge, or Killoe parishes (these are in the Bantry district, I think).
I may never be able to conclusively identify an Ellen Hurley from the birth records alone - hence a plan B is in the works to try and contact Hurleys currently in Coolnagarrane, Derrylugga, and Colomane and see if they are willing to tell me anything about their family histories.
TO-DO LIST FOR ELLEN (these aren't ordered yet except where noted):
1872, #255865, #255866, v20, p638, Skull
1872, #255855, v10, p28, Bantry
1873, #255887, v15, p32, Bantry
1875, #255933, v10, p39, Bantry **already on order**
Jan-Mar 1878, #256001, v5, p22, Bantry
Jul-Sep 1878, #256019, v5, p22, Bantry
Search 1870's births for Ellen Hurley in Dunmanway.
Okay, so much for Ellen. What else did I do today at the FHC? Besides start to copy down all the townlands in the District Electoral Divisions for the Bantry area, I again searched the marriage records on film for the early 1850's looking for a Denis or Daniel or Lawrence Collins. There are very few. I also looked for Great-great-granddad Michael Collins' marriage record, based on a snippet of court testimony, I believe from his widow, in 1909, saying that she was married "the year after the big snow." That was about 1853 or 1854. The film did not show anything, but the LDS PILOT database online had two Skibbereen records of interest, so I ordered them:
Michael COLLINS (Greatgranddad Humphrey Michael's dad) Marriage Records:
1865, #101474, v5, p848, Mick Collins
1866, #101478, v10, p363, Michael Collins
And what about Ellen's husband Denis, and his family? The LDS birth index starts in 1864, but fortunately a few siblings were born after that. Daniel Collins, his brother, was baptized in 1865. That was a RARE name for the time, so I ordered the one match I found in Skibbereen:
Daniel COLLINS (Grandmom's uncle) Birth Record:
1865, #101114, v15, p552
Over and out.
Sunday, August 23, 2009
The mystery of Ceannceile
One of the points in Grandmom's family story that has really been bothering me is the name of her parents' farm. According to the story, it is Ceannceile.
I have googled until the cows come home and there is no such place that I can find. I've searched for some kind of Ireland farm directory, to no avail. I searched the Irish news archives - nothing. I tried splitting it into two words. Cean or ceann can be a Gaelic word but ceile is not.
I thought this had to be a misspelling. So I asked some Irish language experts. One suggested it could be ceann choille "head of the wood" and that it could be the name of a townland. So that lead me to discover the townland of Ceancullig.
Another expert noted that Céile is the beginning of céileabhair "the warbling of birds."
Still another expert noted that ceann céille means "a head of sense."
Margaret at Skibbereen Heritage mentioned that Ceannceile "sounds very much like Kealkill, a little village/community on the eastern side of Bantry."
And apparently St. Brendan built a monastic cell at Seana Cill "old church" - anglicized to Shanakeel, out near Dingle.
So all I can do for now is keep this list of possible names for this farm - and consider the possibility that Ceannceile - or whatever it is - could have been its location.
I have googled until the cows come home and there is no such place that I can find. I've searched for some kind of Ireland farm directory, to no avail. I searched the Irish news archives - nothing. I tried splitting it into two words. Cean or ceann can be a Gaelic word but ceile is not.
I thought this had to be a misspelling. So I asked some Irish language experts. One suggested it could be ceann choille "head of the wood" and that it could be the name of a townland. So that lead me to discover the townland of Ceancullig.
Another expert noted that Céile is the beginning of céileabhair "the warbling of birds."
Still another expert noted that ceann céille means "a head of sense."
Margaret at Skibbereen Heritage mentioned that Ceannceile "sounds very much like Kealkill, a little village/community on the eastern side of Bantry."
And apparently St. Brendan built a monastic cell at Seana Cill "old church" - anglicized to Shanakeel, out near Dingle.
So all I can do for now is keep this list of possible names for this farm - and consider the possibility that Ceannceile - or whatever it is - could have been its location.
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