Moving Here is a subsidiary of the UK National Archives. The archive subsidiary scanned and digitized Irish Reproductive Loan Fund records.
Cork Genealogy now has a Cork-researcher friendly portal to the Cork-related loan record files online at Moving Here. You can learn more about the Cork Reproductive Loan Fund records here.
Saturday, December 29, 2012
Sunday, December 16, 2012
Driscolls of Garrane, version 2.0
After setting aside the problems of my Driscolls for awhile, a few pieces of information about some of the sons fell into my lap.
One of the problems that has made this family especially difficult to research is that the sons I have found - if I have identified the right men - did not follow a naming pattern convention that I know. However, 3g-grandmother Margaret Looney got around. Also, some in-laws and cousins stepped up and filled in as godparents. It was seeing names like Tim Cadogan, Margaret Looney, and Maguire that helped me identify some of the men I think are my gg-grandmother's brothers.
Another curious fact about this family is that despite at least seven people named Regan who were godparents, the relationships with Regans did not show up to a large degree later on. It makes me wonder if perhaps the Regans were friends rather than relatives of Dan Driscoll or of Margaret Looney.
Florence Driscoll (1825 - ?)
The godmother of James Driscoll (b. 1856) of Lahertydaly was grandmother Margaret Looney. The father was Florence and the godfather was probably his uncle James (b. 1835). The godfather of Florence's daughter Ellen (b. 1867) may have been Florence's brother-in-law Tim Cadogan, married to sister Margaret.
Florence married Catherine Healy of Lahertydaly 1-Jul-1855 in Skibbereen R.C. Parish. Then came James (1856); Margaret (1859); Mary (1862); Patrick (1865); and Ellen (1867).
Florence and Catherine were apparently the godparents of Denis Driscoll of Hollybrook, son of Denis Driscoll and Margaret Fitzpatrick, 15-Aug-1869. In October, Catherine Healy Driscoll died, age 36.
Florence married Margaret Minihane of Lahertydaly 26-Feb-1870. The priest wrote "3tis et 3tis affinitatio gratibus dispensatos..." Margaret Minihane was a relative of the late Catherine Healy. From the union of Florence and Margaret came John (1871) and Daniel (1872).
John Driscoll (1842 - ?)
John is an exceptionally difficult case. There were uncertainties about him from the start, as he is indexed as "Tim" in the online church records but was given to me as John by Skibbereen Heritage.
The children of John's sister Johanna Driscoll and Denis Crimeen McCarthy of Dromore had baptism sponsors named Keohane for their children. I noticed the Keohane name again for the children of John Driscoll and Mary McCarthy, of Lacka, as well as the more familiar Maguire name.
The documentation for John Driscoll and Mary McCarthy is in a rocky state. They were married 2-Feb-1869 in Caheragh R.C. Parish. The civil registration record has his surname wrong (as McCarthy) as well as his father Dan. (See "Errors in Civil Registration Records.") In addition, Mary McCarthy is recorded as Mary Keohane on one record. Given that the Keohanes were so involved with their lives, it should not be a surprise.
John and Mary had children Margaret (1870); Ellen (1871); Pat (1872); Mary (1873); Daniel (1875); Johanna (1876); Florence? (1877) and Jeremiah (1879). I have my work cut out for me digging all of this out of civil registration.
Pat Driscoll (1820 - ?)
Pat remains a bit of a mystery. I am assuming it was he who was the witness of the marriage of his sister Mary Driscoll to Andrew Maguire (1846), and who witnessed the marriage of his brother Florence to Catherine Healy (1855).
A Patrick Driscoll married a Catherine Sullivan 21-Feb-1841 in Skibbereen R.C. parish. One Cornelius Driscoll was a witness. This strikes me as rather young for Patrick to marry. If I am tracking the right parents, Margaret (1843) was born in Garranebeg, with godparents Daniel Driscoll and Ellen Twomey. Then Mary, with godparents John Reagan and Mary Minihane, of Garranebeg, was baptized 24-Jan-1846. My next guess is that Catherine Sullivan died, possibly from childbirth. A Patrick Driscoll married Mary Regan of Dromcorragh 24-Feb-1846 with John Reagan and Bridget Reagan as witnesses. From the union of Patrick and Mary came John D in late 1846, godparents John Driscoll and Bridget Hennigan, and Patrick in late 1848, with godparents John Reagan and Eliza McCarthy.
Because of the youth of the groom, I am more in doubt of this data, which is why I have not added it to the Driscoll tree yet.
Dan Driscoll (1829 - ?)
I still have yet to learn anything about him. I have not yet been able to conclusively distinguish him from his father in the land valuation records.
Conclusion
After I found the marriage of son James Driscoll (b. 1835) to Mary Minihane of Lahertydaly, it had not occurred to me to look to Lahertydaly for more relationships between the Driscolls and the Minihanes. But they were there. Furthermore, the godmother of James was an Eleanor Minihane. Just how far does a relationship with Minihanes go back? Was there an earlier blood relationship?
Why weren't the first-born sons by the sons of Dan Driscoll not also named Dan? From looking at the Caheragh church records, I am inclined to think there were so many Dan Driscolls running around the area that maybe the sons decided not to add to the confusion. An interesting fact is that if the four men I have found are in fact the right sons of Dan Driscoll and Margaret Looney, the first born daughters of all of them are named Margaret.
I am very much in the same position as when I posted the last time about the Driscolls. I know a more about the outcomes of the daughters of Dan Driscoll and Margaret Looney, but I still don't know what happened to the sons by the 1901 census. All I know about the Driscolls in Garrane is that they were gone by about 1886 according to the land valuation records.
Updated charts can be found on my own family history page. In addition, the Driscolls of Garrane are documented at the Driscoll of Cork website - I need to update that document with my recent findings.
Saturday, December 15, 2012
Errors in Civil Registration Records
If you have been researching your Irish ancestry for a while, you have probably used the civil registration index and may have on occasion come away perplexed that the person you are looking for isn't there. There are numerous reasons why this might occur.
1. The event might not ever have been recorded. I have seen estimates that maybe as many as 15% of events eligible for civil registration suffered that consequence. In that case, you obviously won't find your record.
2. The family was legitimately recorded under a name that you don't expect, for example, a secondary name or agnomen. Although civil registrars did generally achieve some consistency in how family names were recorded, sometimes inconsistencies fell through. For example, I have seen inconsistencies as late as 1880, in which a child was recorded as Driscoll in the baptism record but as Cadogan in the civil registration record, and the other children in the family were recorded in civil registration as Driscoll.
A good book about the subject is Varieties and Synonyms of Surnames and Christian Names in Ireland, by Robert Matheson, published in 1890 as a guide for registrars.
3. An error was made either while creating the civil registration record or while transcribing the record for the index. Registrars may have had hard-to-decipher handwriting. And they did make errors. Just as priests may have transposed the name of the father and the godfather on a baptism, a registrar may have put the surname of a witness on one of the bridal party, for instance. Errors while transcribing names, volume numbers, page numbers, and districts will negatively affect your search.
Here is one example in which the surname of the groom and of his father are wrong, in my opinion. However, the burden of proof is on me to show that it is wrong. Otherwise, I would be fabricating my family tree, and that would be fraudulent just as much as it would be to claim people have certain parentage without supporting documentation. When faced with a record containing an error, I have to find other evidence supporting the family history model. Ideally, if I were to turn over all my documentation to an independent researcher, that independent researcher would arrive at the same conclusion.
In this civil marriage record, I believe the groom and his father were named DRISCOLL, not MCCARTHY. It is easy to see how this mistake was made. The bride's name and that of her father were MCCARTHY, as were the two witnesses. I think the MCCARTHY name accurately appears four times. Now imagine a busy, distracted civil registration clerk copying down this information, and it isn't a great stretch of the imagination to see how this mistake might occur.
Where is my evidence that this record is wrong?
The groom's name is recorded as DRISCOLL. It has the same date, same priest, and same witnesses as the civil registration record. In addition, these were real witnesses. In other words, they were acquaintances or relatives of the bride and groom and not just standing in at the convenience of the priest while he performed several marriages. Look at the other marriages the priest did around the same time. There are different witnesses for each marriage performed by this priest. Also - very important - there is NO marriage around this time between a John McCarthy and a Mary McCarthy performed by John Wall in this parish at this time.
I am showing only one here for brevity.
I am showing only one here for brevity.
It is impossible to demonstrate the non-existence of something. However, I have to do due diligence and look for a John McCarthy, son of a Daniel McCarthy, residing in Garranemore. From checking Caheragh Tenure books and Griffiths Valuation, so far I have come up with McCarthys but not a Daniel or a John. My final check is the Revision Book up to the time of the marriage. I notice there is a Jeremiah McCarthy, and in fact that is the name of one of the witnesses to the marriage. But still no Daniel or John.
I consider the land valuation books the weakest evidence, as non-leaseholders would likely not have been recorded. The better evidence is probably the parish register showing there was no such marriage.
If you can, view the civil registration data films, not just the index films. Browse through all the entries for that that registry office. A strategy that has paid off a few times for me has been to estimate the quarter and year the event I am seeking would have been recorded and browse the data film for that time period, even if the event is not in the index. Every time I have done so and have found a record, I've learned something in the process.
1. The event might not ever have been recorded. I have seen estimates that maybe as many as 15% of events eligible for civil registration suffered that consequence. In that case, you obviously won't find your record.
2. The family was legitimately recorded under a name that you don't expect, for example, a secondary name or agnomen. Although civil registrars did generally achieve some consistency in how family names were recorded, sometimes inconsistencies fell through. For example, I have seen inconsistencies as late as 1880, in which a child was recorded as Driscoll in the baptism record but as Cadogan in the civil registration record, and the other children in the family were recorded in civil registration as Driscoll.
A good book about the subject is Varieties and Synonyms of Surnames and Christian Names in Ireland, by Robert Matheson, published in 1890 as a guide for registrars.
3. An error was made either while creating the civil registration record or while transcribing the record for the index. Registrars may have had hard-to-decipher handwriting. And they did make errors. Just as priests may have transposed the name of the father and the godfather on a baptism, a registrar may have put the surname of a witness on one of the bridal party, for instance. Errors while transcribing names, volume numbers, page numbers, and districts will negatively affect your search.
Here is one example in which the surname of the groom and of his father are wrong, in my opinion. However, the burden of proof is on me to show that it is wrong. Otherwise, I would be fabricating my family tree, and that would be fraudulent just as much as it would be to claim people have certain parentage without supporting documentation. When faced with a record containing an error, I have to find other evidence supporting the family history model. Ideally, if I were to turn over all my documentation to an independent researcher, that independent researcher would arrive at the same conclusion.
In this civil marriage record, I believe the groom and his father were named DRISCOLL, not MCCARTHY. It is easy to see how this mistake was made. The bride's name and that of her father were MCCARTHY, as were the two witnesses. I think the MCCARTHY name accurately appears four times. Now imagine a busy, distracted civil registration clerk copying down this information, and it isn't a great stretch of the imagination to see how this mistake might occur.
 |
| Marriage Record showing Name of the Groom as McCarthy, not Driscoll |
Exhibit 1: Church Marriage Record
 |
| Caheragh R.C. Parish record of John Driscoll and Mary McCarthy |
Exhibit 2: Children's Baptism Records
I am showing only one here for brevity.
 |
| Baptism record of Margaret Driscoll |
Exhibit 3: Children's Birth Records from Civil Registration
I am showing only one here for brevity.
 |
| Civil Registration record of Margaret Driscoll's birth |
Exhibit 4. Land Valuation Records
 |
| Revision of Cloghdonnell DED |
I consider the land valuation books the weakest evidence, as non-leaseholders would likely not have been recorded. The better evidence is probably the parish register showing there was no such marriage.
Conclusion
If you can, view the civil registration data films, not just the index films. Browse through all the entries for that that registry office. A strategy that has paid off a few times for me has been to estimate the quarter and year the event I am seeking would have been recorded and browse the data film for that time period, even if the event is not in the index. Every time I have done so and have found a record, I've learned something in the process.
Tuesday, November 20, 2012
TA transcriptions of Clear Island, Kilmocomoge, and Kilmonoge now online
Full TA transcriptions of the parishes of Clear Island, Kilmocomoge, and Kilmonoge (Kinsale) are now completed. Like the other corkgen.org transcriptions, they are Google map linked and contain footnotes on many surnames. The civil parish indexes now show a year for each record, because some of these parishes underwent multi-year enumerations.
Main TA page.
CorkGen TA page.
Enjoy.
Main TA page.
CorkGen TA page.
Enjoy.
Thursday, November 8, 2012
National Archive releases Tithe Applotment books online
The National Archives is in the process of releasing some additional genealogical materials online, and has released Tithe Applotment books. Enjoy!
Friday, September 28, 2012
Adrigole Collins Developments
Since my post on the Collinses of Coornishal, I have found out a little more about the Adrigole Collinses. I have identified two more women whom I believe were daughters of "Larr" (1783-1867) and their families.
In the Collinses of Coornishal post I wondered about a Catherine Collins in the family tree of a DNA match and whether our shared ancestry was through that Catherine. I still don't know if that is our common connection, but I did find a Catherine Collins, married to Daniel Sullivan before 1852 and living in Laherdane, Castlehaven parish. The children I could find were Patrick (1852), Mary (1854), Catherine (1856), Michael (1858), Nancy (1860), Margaret? (1862), and Johanna (1865). Larry Collins was a godfather of Mary in 1854.
I have tried tracing Sullivans in the 1901 census but they are no longer obviously there. I will have to search the revision books after Griffith's to determine when they left Laherdane. So far, I have not even been able to guess a potential birth year for this Catherine, therefore I'd be interested in obtaining her death record if possible. I think she and Daniel Sullivan may have been listed as godparents in the 1870's.
Another person I found was Mary Collins, who married John Young of Derryclough, Drinagh in 1855. I think Larr witnessed the marriage. The children I could find were Margaret (1855), Jane (1857), Thomas (1860), Edward (1862), John (1864), Richard (1867), Mary (1870), and Michael (1873).
I believe Mary was the godmother of Catherine's child Patrick Sullivan; that Catherine was the godmother of Mary's child Richard Young, and now I think this Catherine was likely the godmother of Daniel Collins of Cullomane East (1865), the youngest child of Daniel Collins and Mary Mahony. I think Mary Collins Young is in the 1901 census, widowed, in Derryclough Lower in Drinagh. Judging from the census record I estimate she was born about 1830.
One Thomas Young was identified as a nephew to Jeremiah Collins in the latter's funeral writeup from the Southern Star on May 9, 1903.
I have viewed an 1856 Skibbereen bridewell record in the Ireland Prison Registers for a Laurence Collins who was picked up and detained for being drunk and disorderly, but the record does not state where he was from or state any family members or otherwise give any further details about the arrest and detention.
There are two other couples I have my eye on. Patrick Collins and Ann Regan were the parents of Laurence Collins, baptized 18-Aug-1819 in Caheragh R.C. parish. The couple may have moved to Kilmeen civil parish; Patrick was baptized 11-Feb-1822; Mary was baptized 28-Jul-1824; and twins Catherine and Julia 25-Oct-1826. Lance (Laurence) Collins was the godfather of Patrick and of Mary. I have no further information on this couple or this Laurence and so far I have not tied them to people in Adrigole or Coornishal.
Jeremiah Collins and Johanna Collins were the parents of Larry Collins, baptized 20-Aug-1860 in Castlehaven & Myross R.C. parish. One Catherine Barry was the godmother. I am pointing her out because I have seen the name Catherine Barry as a witness to the marriage of John Collins and Catherine Sheily of Adrigole. Other children for Jeremiah and Johanna Collins are Daniel (1857), Margaret (1866), and Jeremiah (1869). This couple is associated with a family named Byrns. Their residence is recorded as Lahane or Lahern, which might be Lahardane Beg or Lahardane More - perhaps where Catherine Collins and Daniel Sullivan lived.
There was a Patrick Collins who was a godfather of Laurence baptized 17-Mar-1849 in Castlehaven & Myross, while Daniel Collins and Mary Mahony were still living in Adrigole, before their move to Cullomane East. I have been trying to find out more about this Patrick, without much success. There was a Patrick Collins in Adrigole in the Tenure Book (the pre-Griffith's notebook) in 1850, but he was gone by the publication of Griffith's Valuation a few years later. For a while I thought that perhaps this Patrick had settled in Garranes, near Castletownsend, and I investigated the Collinses down there, but have subsequently learned the Garranes/Castletownsend Collinses came from elsewhere.
In the Collinses of Coornishal post I wondered about a Catherine Collins in the family tree of a DNA match and whether our shared ancestry was through that Catherine. I still don't know if that is our common connection, but I did find a Catherine Collins, married to Daniel Sullivan before 1852 and living in Laherdane, Castlehaven parish. The children I could find were Patrick (1852), Mary (1854), Catherine (1856), Michael (1858), Nancy (1860), Margaret? (1862), and Johanna (1865). Larry Collins was a godfather of Mary in 1854.
I have tried tracing Sullivans in the 1901 census but they are no longer obviously there. I will have to search the revision books after Griffith's to determine when they left Laherdane. So far, I have not even been able to guess a potential birth year for this Catherine, therefore I'd be interested in obtaining her death record if possible. I think she and Daniel Sullivan may have been listed as godparents in the 1870's.
Another person I found was Mary Collins, who married John Young of Derryclough, Drinagh in 1855. I think Larr witnessed the marriage. The children I could find were Margaret (1855), Jane (1857), Thomas (1860), Edward (1862), John (1864), Richard (1867), Mary (1870), and Michael (1873).
I believe Mary was the godmother of Catherine's child Patrick Sullivan; that Catherine was the godmother of Mary's child Richard Young, and now I think this Catherine was likely the godmother of Daniel Collins of Cullomane East (1865), the youngest child of Daniel Collins and Mary Mahony. I think Mary Collins Young is in the 1901 census, widowed, in Derryclough Lower in Drinagh. Judging from the census record I estimate she was born about 1830.
One Thomas Young was identified as a nephew to Jeremiah Collins in the latter's funeral writeup from the Southern Star on May 9, 1903.
I have viewed an 1856 Skibbereen bridewell record in the Ireland Prison Registers for a Laurence Collins who was picked up and detained for being drunk and disorderly, but the record does not state where he was from or state any family members or otherwise give any further details about the arrest and detention.
There are two other couples I have my eye on. Patrick Collins and Ann Regan were the parents of Laurence Collins, baptized 18-Aug-1819 in Caheragh R.C. parish. The couple may have moved to Kilmeen civil parish; Patrick was baptized 11-Feb-1822; Mary was baptized 28-Jul-1824; and twins Catherine and Julia 25-Oct-1826. Lance (Laurence) Collins was the godfather of Patrick and of Mary. I have no further information on this couple or this Laurence and so far I have not tied them to people in Adrigole or Coornishal.
Jeremiah Collins and Johanna Collins were the parents of Larry Collins, baptized 20-Aug-1860 in Castlehaven & Myross R.C. parish. One Catherine Barry was the godmother. I am pointing her out because I have seen the name Catherine Barry as a witness to the marriage of John Collins and Catherine Sheily of Adrigole. Other children for Jeremiah and Johanna Collins are Daniel (1857), Margaret (1866), and Jeremiah (1869). This couple is associated with a family named Byrns. Their residence is recorded as Lahane or Lahern, which might be Lahardane Beg or Lahardane More - perhaps where Catherine Collins and Daniel Sullivan lived.
There was a Patrick Collins who was a godfather of Laurence baptized 17-Mar-1849 in Castlehaven & Myross, while Daniel Collins and Mary Mahony were still living in Adrigole, before their move to Cullomane East. I have been trying to find out more about this Patrick, without much success. There was a Patrick Collins in Adrigole in the Tenure Book (the pre-Griffith's notebook) in 1850, but he was gone by the publication of Griffith's Valuation a few years later. For a while I thought that perhaps this Patrick had settled in Garranes, near Castletownsend, and I investigated the Collinses down there, but have subsequently learned the Garranes/Castletownsend Collinses came from elsewhere.
Thursday, August 30, 2012
Squeeze more juice out of your Family Finder DNA test
gedmatch.com is a website with tools for genealogy research. At gedmatch it is possible for Family Finder testers to go "deeper" in comparison of their autosomal test results to others. You also can compare your results to other gedmatch users who tested through 23AndMe. If you are willing to fuss around with a computer and a not-too-easy-to-use website, you can go further with your autosomal test results. In gedmatch tables I have seen people who may share ancestry with me as far back as 11 generations by gedmatch's calculation.
In addition, you can compare your uploaded data with others in the West Cork & Kerry ancestors project.
In my own case I think my match generation calculations are too generous, and should go back further. For example, I have a match who "should" be a third cousin according to FTDNA but we cannot even find a surname or geographic area in common, much less figure out how we are supposed to match. So if I see a match labeled, say 4.3 generations in gedmatch, I tend to think it is more like 6 or 7. But that is just my experience.
There are two files you need to download from FTDNA once you've logged in to your account:
1) Under Family Finder | Matches, at the bottom of the page it says "Download Raw Data." Download the CSV file. That is a file of your matches. The file will be named starting with your kit number, then "_Family_Finder_Matches_" then a date and then the file extension is CSV. e.g.
N73108_Family_Finder_Matches_20120825.csv
2) Under Family Finder | Download Raw Data, you want to download "Autosomal Raw Data." It is in GZIP (compressed) format. It will be very large, maybe 24 megabytes. The file will be named starting with your kit number, then "autosomal-o-results" and then the file extension will be .CSV.GZ. e.g.
N73108-autosomal-o-results.csv.gz
3) You will need something like Windows Zip utility or gzip (decompress option) to unzip this file. After you decompress the file, the file extension will be CSV. e.g.
N73108-autosomal-o-results.csv
Now point your browser to gedmatch.com.
4) This page is to upload your large file of your autosomal DNA.
http://ww2.gedmatch.com:8006/autosomal/a-upload1.php
You need to fill in your email address, the donor name exactly as it appears in the FTDNA account, and the kit number. You can also add an alias if you wish to. There are more questions, then at the bottom of the screen on the left, click CHOOSE FILE to select on your hard drive your large autosomal results file. Then click UPLOAD on the bottom right. Be patient and wait for this to upload.
5) To upload your matches data, go to this page:
http://ww3.gedmatch.com:8004/relationship_search1.php
You answer some similar questions. Your Family Finder test was likely run on the Illumina chip so leave that selected. At the bottom left click CHOOSE FILE to select your matches file and then on the bottom right click UPLOAD.
Check to see if the download is succeeding. You will see error messages on the screen if it did not.
In that case, you may want to open the CSV file in a plain text editor and make sure that every field is surrounded by double quotes " ", then separated from adjacent fields by a comma. I have seen problems with this file before, however the last time I tried it there were no problems.
The field names are:
"Full Name","Match Date","Relationship Range","Suggested Relationship","Shared cM","Longest Block","Known Relationship","E-mail","Ancestral Surnames (Bolded names match your surnames)","notes".
6) This is entirely optional. In your FTDNA account there is a third file you can upload. Under Family Finder | Download Raw Data, save the file under X Chromosome Raw Data, which is in GZIP (compressed) format. I have seen only one of these files but after decompressing it the size was about 600K. You can upload that file here:
http://ww2.gedmatch.com:8006/x/x_upload1.php
Note: FTDNA and other testing labs are still experimenting with this data to see what might be available through it. X chromosome data comes through fewer lines than the full-blown autosomal data, however because the contributing father's X chromosome does not recombine from his parents, in daughters his X chromosome will have survived a generation without recombining. I don't know what to make of gedmatch's interpretation of generations, to be honest. We have no information yet about this result.
----------------------------------------
7. You may also want to upload a GEDCOM file. You can do that here:
http://www.gedmatch.com/upload.php
8. Once your data has been uploaded and you've been able to play with the triangulation tool a little, point your browser to the home page, click a link called Ancestor-Projects.Com. Then click Details where it says "West Cork/Kerry Ireland."
9. Email the contact person with your kit number and your GEDCOM ID number, if you uploaded your GEDCOM. Once the administrator accesses your data, you can compare your results with others in the West Cork/Kerry project.
Update: GEDMATCH has been upgraded and is back online, however Curtis has plans for further upgrades so please support him if you can.
Sunday, August 26, 2012
O'Hourihane DNA Projects Announcement
The O'Hourihane DNA Projects have been launched.
The project home is at: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~skibbgirl/HourihaneDNA/
Shortcut: http://tinyurl.com/HourihaneDNAProject
If you know people named some variation of Hourihane, Hanrahan, Horgan, Horrigan, Horan, or one of the myriad ways these names may be construed or misconstrued, please give them a nudge and send them our way. And if one of these names shows up in your ancestry, please come join us in this DNA study. In addition to Y-DNA tests, we are accepting A-DNA (i.e., Family Finder) tests for those of us who are not direct male descendants but otherwise have relatively recent ancestry of interest in our family trees.
The website contains the project background and goals; a distribution map of surnames of interest; direct links to surname forums; small collections of extracted genealogy records, and other goodies.
While the geographic area of interest is most of Munster plus Co. Galway, these names have been spotted in other counties so our geographic curiosity is already expanding.
The project is a 100% volunteer effort, and the administrator does not receive any compensation or commissions from testing laboratories.
In addition to the project home on Rootsweb, there is a sister site at: http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/ohourihane
At Family Tree DNA the project is at: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/hourihane/
The project home is at: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~skibbgirl/HourihaneDNA/
Shortcut: http://tinyurl.com/HourihaneDNAProject
If you know people named some variation of Hourihane, Hanrahan, Horgan, Horrigan, Horan, or one of the myriad ways these names may be construed or misconstrued, please give them a nudge and send them our way. And if one of these names shows up in your ancestry, please come join us in this DNA study. In addition to Y-DNA tests, we are accepting A-DNA (i.e., Family Finder) tests for those of us who are not direct male descendants but otherwise have relatively recent ancestry of interest in our family trees.
The website contains the project background and goals; a distribution map of surnames of interest; direct links to surname forums; small collections of extracted genealogy records, and other goodies.
While the geographic area of interest is most of Munster plus Co. Galway, these names have been spotted in other counties so our geographic curiosity is already expanding.
The project is a 100% volunteer effort, and the administrator does not receive any compensation or commissions from testing laboratories.
In addition to the project home on Rootsweb, there is a sister site at: http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/ohourihane
At Family Tree DNA the project is at: http://www.familytreedna.com/public/hourihane/
Tuesday, July 31, 2012
Durrus and Kilcrohane Tithe Applotment transcriptions now online
Durrus and Kilcrohane, as well as other southwest Cork TA transcriptions, are available at Cork Genealogy.
Pat Crowley, webmaster of Durrus History, has been and continues to be of great assistance for these transcriptions. Visit his wonderful website if you have an interest in the Muintervara peninsula area.
Pat Crowley, webmaster of Durrus History, has been and continues to be of great assistance for these transcriptions. Visit his wonderful website if you have an interest in the Muintervara peninsula area.
Monday, July 9, 2012
Cork Ancestral Project going online
I'm not sure what happened to the St. Anne link to the cathedral genealogy query page. Maybe they were pressured to take it down in light of the Cork Ancestral Project records for Cork City going online after all these years !
http://irish-genealogy-news.blogspot.ie/2012/07/cork-records-to-go-online-after-18-year.html
http://irish-genealogy-news.blogspot.ie/2012/07/cork-records-to-go-online-after-18-year.html
Thursday, June 14, 2012
St. Mary and St. Anne on Shandon Street does genealogy lookups
I don't know how long they have been offering this lookup service, but the main cathedral does lookups for a very modest fee of 15 euro.
http://www.corkcathedral.ie/Genealogy/Genealogy.html
http://www.corkcathedral.ie/Genealogy/Genealogy.html
Sunday, June 10, 2012
Creagh and Tullagh Tithe Applotment transcriptions now online
Just in time for the Driscoll clan gathering!
Transcriptions for the Skibbereen area
Submit a correction here
Transcriptions for the Skibbereen area
Submit a correction here
Friday, June 8, 2012
Cork townlands misfiled in the 1901 census under Clonakilty
Today I was tallying up district electoral divisions in the 1901 census and noticed a significant problem in the urban district of Clonakilty. The following townlands are actually in the PLU of Cork, not Clonakilty. Their district electoral division is Carrigrohane Beg, not Clonakilty.
If you had been searching by drilling down through the DEDs from 1901 Cork, you will not find Carrigrohane Beg DED, and only by luck will you encounter these places in Clonakilty DED if you happen drill drown through it. If you fill out the 1901 search form by entering Carrigrohane for the DED, you won't find them either. You will only find these townlands if you enter them in the 1901 search form under Townland/street - though a wild card might have helped you if you did not have exact spelling.
Carrigrohane Beg does appear when you drill down through 1911 Cork.
The misfiled townlands in the 1901 census are: Ardrum (spelled as Ardran), Ballyanly, Bridgestown, Carrigrohane Beg, Carrigyknaveen, Coolatanavally, Coolatubrid, Coolyduff, Currabeha, Curraleigh, Dromasmole, Faha, Garravagh, Gurteen, Knocknamarriff, Lackenshoneen, Moneyflugh, and Woodside.
Note that 1901 shows DEDs Clonakilty and Clonakilty Urban. The mangled DED is Clonakilty, which is the rural district.
If you had been searching by drilling down through the DEDs from 1901 Cork, you will not find Carrigrohane Beg DED, and only by luck will you encounter these places in Clonakilty DED if you happen drill drown through it. If you fill out the 1901 search form by entering Carrigrohane for the DED, you won't find them either. You will only find these townlands if you enter them in the 1901 search form under Townland/street - though a wild card might have helped you if you did not have exact spelling.
Carrigrohane Beg does appear when you drill down through 1911 Cork.
The misfiled townlands in the 1901 census are: Ardrum (spelled as Ardran), Ballyanly, Bridgestown, Carrigrohane Beg, Carrigyknaveen, Coolatanavally, Coolatubrid, Coolyduff, Currabeha, Curraleigh, Dromasmole, Faha, Garravagh, Gurteen, Knocknamarriff, Lackenshoneen, Moneyflugh, and Woodside.
Note that 1901 shows DEDs Clonakilty and Clonakilty Urban. The mangled DED is Clonakilty, which is the rural district.
Friday, May 25, 2012
A Ride on the Mahony Genealogy Rollercoaster
Genealogy research is often like a visit to an amusement park. You go to the park intending to see the clown, but get distracted by the mirrors and forget about the clown. One minute you are elated to have a hot lead, only to be in despair moments later when that lead falls apart. It's like being on a roller coaster.
Such was my research day yesterday. It was a good lesson in realizing that "things may not be what they seem" and "read the ENTIRE record." Just because somebody named so-and-so is over in the next townland it doesn't mean he's the person you are looking for.
Yesterday I unintentionally ended up revisiting some Mahony questions that have been on the back burner. First question: Were the Mahonys of Bredagh related in some way to the Mahonys in surrounding areas, such as Toughbaun and Minanes? Second question: Where was Catherine Hurley Mahony of Bredagh from? I will leave the second question for a separate posting.
There have been only two minor problems with that conclusion: 1) Mary Mahony's birth year, as suggested by the 1901 census and her 1901 death record, suggested 1825/6 as a birth year. The Mary from Bredagh was baptized in late 1823. It's not uncommon for people to be slightly off on their birth years, so this is not a major problem. 2) One of the Mahony baptism sponsors of the Collins children was a Daniel. There is no baptism record for a Daniel out of Bredagh in the right time period, but given that there is no marriage record for Denis Mahony = Kate Hurley, it is impossible to know what children were born before the start of available church records. Daniel could also have been a younger brother of Denis or a cousin. The name of Daniel's co-sponsor, Mary Burke, is also the name of the wife of a Daniel Mahony in Castledonovan, as per the Drimoleague & Drinagh online church records. Unless this is some amazing coincidence, Daniel M and Mary B of Castledonovan likely had a relationship to the Mahonys in Bredagh.
The known siblings of Mary of Bredagh were Patrick (1822), Norry (1826), Margaret (1831), Tim (1834), Denis (1836), and Kate (1840). In addition, there is evidence from the 1901 census that there may have been a brother named Cain.
Margaret Mahony of Bredagh married Denis Collins of Lissane. They had a son Tim, who became a baker and had a grocery with his older sister Mary in the village of Drimoleague. Mary and Tim Collins are in Drimoleague in the 1911 census.
They weren't yet situated there in 1901. I have no idea where Mary was in 1901, but where was Tim the baker? I believe I found him, listed as a boarder with a Michael Mahony, his wife Ann, and some of their children, in Toughbaun.
Was Tim Collins a second, or maybe third cousin of Michael Mahony of Toughbaun? Or just a neighbor or friend?
To dig into that, I had to look at my research from when I was originally researching Mary Mahony. One family really stood out - Tim Mahony and Ellen Crowley of Minanes, a townland adjacent to Toughbaun. Tim and Ellen married 30-Jun-1822 in Drimoleague & Drinagh parish. The known children of this Minanes couple were Denis (1823), Mary (1825), Juliann (1827), Dan (1829), Tim (1832), Ellen (1834), Cain (1837), Ann (1840), Michael (1844), and Kate (1848). Whew! Ellen Crowley must have been quite young when she married!
When I was first researching my gg-grandmother, this daughter Mary, baptized in 1825, seemed like a better fit. Could this have been my ancestral family? After some long deliberation, I concluded they weren't.
The names of the Mahony witnesses to events for the family of Daniel Collins and Mary Mahony of Cullomane East were Denis (the wedding of Daniel C = Mary M in 1845), Margaret (in 1847), Cain (in 1852), Daniel (in 1856), Catherine (in 1858), Timothy (in 1860), Margaret (in 1860), and Kate (in 1863). The Minanes family did not have a Cain or a Margaret that I could find. The Bredagh family was missing only a Daniel, which might be explained due to incomplete information on the Bredagh family. Kate from Minanes, baptized in 1848, would have been way too young to have been a Godmother in 1858. Furthermore, no Juliann or Ann or Michael shows up as a Collins event witness.
Some time ago, when I first investigated the Toughbaun family in the 1901 census, I obtained the birth record of son Stephen. Stephen was registered 1-Sep-1878, in Toughbaun, father Michael Mahony, a shoemaker. The mother was listed as Mary Sullivan. The mother in the census is named Ann. So there are conflicts here.
The Michael from Minanes would certainly have been a suitable age to marry Ann Sullivan from Leap on 24-Feb-1870 and settle in Toughbaun, right next door to Minanes. But everything falls apart from there.
The Kilmacabea R.C. parish marriage records for the time period lists the names of the fathers of the bride and groom. Michael's father was listed as Michael, not Tim. Oops!
The Drimoleague & Drinagh baptism records show the following children for this Toughbaun couple: Hanora (1871), Michael John (1872), James (1874), Dan (1876), and Maryanne (1880). That the oldest boy was named Michael John convinces me the Kilmacabea register did not have an error. The ONLY Mahony wedding witness was John.
Practically none of the Minanes names show as Toughbaun event witnesses - no Tim, no Denis, no Ann, no Juliann, etc. The only Mahony names as baptism sponsors in Toughbaun are John and Ellen.
So the Michael married to Ann Sullivan and in the census in Toughbaun doesn't appear to be the Michael from next-door Minanes. That theory looks dead.
Who then, was this Michael, son of a Michael? Another review of the church records for the area was necessary, and there was a chance I would never find him, if he was born before the availability of area records. Drimoleague & Drinagh R.C. Parish records contain a BIG GAP in missing marriages, roughly 1864-1876, so to fully travel this avenue of research I will have to exhaustively search the civil registration index. I will leave that task on the back burner.
Here's a possibility for Michael Junior. A record for Mick Mahony, baptized in Drimoleague & Drinagh R.C. Parish, 29-Mar-1835, was transcribed as father White Mahony, mother Dunn, and sponsor Kate Donovan. I looked at the image, and I believe it reads: Mick, illegitimate of Mick Mahony Dunmanway and Kate Donovan. The record is too blackened to get any further information out of it, so I don't know where the mother lived.
Here's another one. Baptized Sep-1844, Castlehaven & Myross R.C. Parish. Mother is Ellen Donovan. No residence given. Further search on that couple did not lead to anything enlightening.
Here's another possibility for Michael Junior. Baptized 24-Oct-1846, Kilmacabea R.C. Parish. Mother listed as Elle Donovan. The residence is blackened out, but looks like it could start with a T. I searched for more children for this couple. A son John, baptized 14-Mar-1840, shows the residence of Tralong, which is in the civil parish of Ross. This is not outside the realm of possibility, and there is a sibling John, which is a nice plus.
Here's a final possibility. Baptized 8-Sep-1838. Mother yet another Nell Donovan. The residence is listed as Carranashingane. Searching for more children of this couple, there is a Denis, baptized 6-Feb-1845, residence is listed as Killaveennogue. A daughter, Margaret, baptized 12-Feb-1836, is listed with a residence that looks like "Tuligdarmuid." I think that last place could be Toughmacdermody. These three locations are adjacent to each other and they all lie just a few miles north of Toughbaun. I am guessing that this Michael Senior was a laborer, who moved his family around a bit.
Neither Griffith's Valuation nor the Tithe Applotment for Drinagh have so far shed any light on the origins of this Michael Mahony Senior. In addition, I would like to have seen a son John in this family to feel more like this is Toughbaun Michael's family.
Have I extracted all the clues I could get from the marriage record of Michael Mahony and Ann Sullivan? No! The record lists the groom's residence as Drinagh. It also lists the residence of the groom's father. It is rather unreadable, looking like Kilculua or Kilculan. That does not look familiar. But wait, there's more! The Kilmacabea R.C. Parish record also lists the residence of the witness John Mahony, as Kilcaskan. The only Kilcaskan around is in Ballymoney civil parish, in Dunmanway. There are a few intriguing place names around there, like Kilvinane, and Kilvurra. The Ballymoney Tithe Applotment lists a Michael Mahony in Currabeg, which lies maybe a mile southeast of Kilcaskan and is near Kilvinane and Kilvurra. Now I am wondering if perhaps the illegitimate Michael, son of Kate Donovan, has come into play.
One obvious line of research is to look at the civil registration birth records for some of the other children, to confirm the mother was Ann Sullivan. Other interesting facts that have sprung up - present at the birth of Stephen Mahony was a Mary Donovan of Curraghalicky, another place in the same neighborhood. And Michael of Toughbaun is listed as a grocer in Francis Guy's directory of 1914. Perhaps at one time Tim the baker was an apprentice shopkeeper?
For now, I will leave this research as it is, and revisit it later.
Such was my research day yesterday. It was a good lesson in realizing that "things may not be what they seem" and "read the ENTIRE record." Just because somebody named so-and-so is over in the next townland it doesn't mean he's the person you are looking for.
Yesterday I unintentionally ended up revisiting some Mahony questions that have been on the back burner. First question: Were the Mahonys of Bredagh related in some way to the Mahonys in surrounding areas, such as Toughbaun and Minanes? Second question: Where was Catherine Hurley Mahony of Bredagh from? I will leave the second question for a separate posting.
Mahonys in the Drimoleague, Drinagh, Ballymoney, and Kilmacabea areas
If you have read earlier postings, you'll know from the release of the remaining Castlehaven & Myross baptism records I found more conclusive evidence indicating that Grandmom's paternal grandmother was the Mary Mahony who was the daughter of Denis Mahony and Catherine Hurley of Bredagh. Kate Hurley showed up as a baptism sponsor for Laurence (indexed as Jane), the first son of Daniel Collins and Mary Mahony.There have been only two minor problems with that conclusion: 1) Mary Mahony's birth year, as suggested by the 1901 census and her 1901 death record, suggested 1825/6 as a birth year. The Mary from Bredagh was baptized in late 1823. It's not uncommon for people to be slightly off on their birth years, so this is not a major problem. 2) One of the Mahony baptism sponsors of the Collins children was a Daniel. There is no baptism record for a Daniel out of Bredagh in the right time period, but given that there is no marriage record for Denis Mahony = Kate Hurley, it is impossible to know what children were born before the start of available church records. Daniel could also have been a younger brother of Denis or a cousin. The name of Daniel's co-sponsor, Mary Burke, is also the name of the wife of a Daniel Mahony in Castledonovan, as per the Drimoleague & Drinagh online church records. Unless this is some amazing coincidence, Daniel M and Mary B of Castledonovan likely had a relationship to the Mahonys in Bredagh.
The known siblings of Mary of Bredagh were Patrick (1822), Norry (1826), Margaret (1831), Tim (1834), Denis (1836), and Kate (1840). In addition, there is evidence from the 1901 census that there may have been a brother named Cain.
Margaret Mahony of Bredagh married Denis Collins of Lissane. They had a son Tim, who became a baker and had a grocery with his older sister Mary in the village of Drimoleague. Mary and Tim Collins are in Drimoleague in the 1911 census.
They weren't yet situated there in 1901. I have no idea where Mary was in 1901, but where was Tim the baker? I believe I found him, listed as a boarder with a Michael Mahony, his wife Ann, and some of their children, in Toughbaun.
Was Tim Collins a second, or maybe third cousin of Michael Mahony of Toughbaun? Or just a neighbor or friend?
To dig into that, I had to look at my research from when I was originally researching Mary Mahony. One family really stood out - Tim Mahony and Ellen Crowley of Minanes, a townland adjacent to Toughbaun. Tim and Ellen married 30-Jun-1822 in Drimoleague & Drinagh parish. The known children of this Minanes couple were Denis (1823), Mary (1825), Juliann (1827), Dan (1829), Tim (1832), Ellen (1834), Cain (1837), Ann (1840), Michael (1844), and Kate (1848). Whew! Ellen Crowley must have been quite young when she married!
When I was first researching my gg-grandmother, this daughter Mary, baptized in 1825, seemed like a better fit. Could this have been my ancestral family? After some long deliberation, I concluded they weren't.
The names of the Mahony witnesses to events for the family of Daniel Collins and Mary Mahony of Cullomane East were Denis (the wedding of Daniel C = Mary M in 1845), Margaret (in 1847), Cain (in 1852), Daniel (in 1856), Catherine (in 1858), Timothy (in 1860), Margaret (in 1860), and Kate (in 1863). The Minanes family did not have a Cain or a Margaret that I could find. The Bredagh family was missing only a Daniel, which might be explained due to incomplete information on the Bredagh family. Kate from Minanes, baptized in 1848, would have been way too young to have been a Godmother in 1858. Furthermore, no Juliann or Ann or Michael shows up as a Collins event witness.
Some time ago, when I first investigated the Toughbaun family in the 1901 census, I obtained the birth record of son Stephen. Stephen was registered 1-Sep-1878, in Toughbaun, father Michael Mahony, a shoemaker. The mother was listed as Mary Sullivan. The mother in the census is named Ann. So there are conflicts here.
The Michael from Minanes would certainly have been a suitable age to marry Ann Sullivan from Leap on 24-Feb-1870 and settle in Toughbaun, right next door to Minanes. But everything falls apart from there.
The Kilmacabea R.C. parish marriage records for the time period lists the names of the fathers of the bride and groom. Michael's father was listed as Michael, not Tim. Oops!
The Drimoleague & Drinagh baptism records show the following children for this Toughbaun couple: Hanora (1871), Michael John (1872), James (1874), Dan (1876), and Maryanne (1880). That the oldest boy was named Michael John convinces me the Kilmacabea register did not have an error. The ONLY Mahony wedding witness was John.
Practically none of the Minanes names show as Toughbaun event witnesses - no Tim, no Denis, no Ann, no Juliann, etc. The only Mahony names as baptism sponsors in Toughbaun are John and Ellen.
So the Michael married to Ann Sullivan and in the census in Toughbaun doesn't appear to be the Michael from next-door Minanes. That theory looks dead.
Who then, was this Michael, son of a Michael? Another review of the church records for the area was necessary, and there was a chance I would never find him, if he was born before the availability of area records. Drimoleague & Drinagh R.C. Parish records contain a BIG GAP in missing marriages, roughly 1864-1876, so to fully travel this avenue of research I will have to exhaustively search the civil registration index. I will leave that task on the back burner.
Here's a possibility for Michael Junior. A record for Mick Mahony, baptized in Drimoleague & Drinagh R.C. Parish, 29-Mar-1835, was transcribed as father White Mahony, mother Dunn, and sponsor Kate Donovan. I looked at the image, and I believe it reads: Mick, illegitimate of Mick Mahony Dunmanway and Kate Donovan. The record is too blackened to get any further information out of it, so I don't know where the mother lived.
Here's another one. Baptized Sep-1844, Castlehaven & Myross R.C. Parish. Mother is Ellen Donovan. No residence given. Further search on that couple did not lead to anything enlightening.
Here's another possibility for Michael Junior. Baptized 24-Oct-1846, Kilmacabea R.C. Parish. Mother listed as Elle Donovan. The residence is blackened out, but looks like it could start with a T. I searched for more children for this couple. A son John, baptized 14-Mar-1840, shows the residence of Tralong, which is in the civil parish of Ross. This is not outside the realm of possibility, and there is a sibling John, which is a nice plus.
Here's a final possibility. Baptized 8-Sep-1838. Mother yet another Nell Donovan. The residence is listed as Carranashingane. Searching for more children of this couple, there is a Denis, baptized 6-Feb-1845, residence is listed as Killaveennogue. A daughter, Margaret, baptized 12-Feb-1836, is listed with a residence that looks like "Tuligdarmuid." I think that last place could be Toughmacdermody. These three locations are adjacent to each other and they all lie just a few miles north of Toughbaun. I am guessing that this Michael Senior was a laborer, who moved his family around a bit.
Neither Griffith's Valuation nor the Tithe Applotment for Drinagh have so far shed any light on the origins of this Michael Mahony Senior. In addition, I would like to have seen a son John in this family to feel more like this is Toughbaun Michael's family.
Have I extracted all the clues I could get from the marriage record of Michael Mahony and Ann Sullivan? No! The record lists the groom's residence as Drinagh. It also lists the residence of the groom's father. It is rather unreadable, looking like Kilculua or Kilculan. That does not look familiar. But wait, there's more! The Kilmacabea R.C. Parish record also lists the residence of the witness John Mahony, as Kilcaskan. The only Kilcaskan around is in Ballymoney civil parish, in Dunmanway. There are a few intriguing place names around there, like Kilvinane, and Kilvurra. The Ballymoney Tithe Applotment lists a Michael Mahony in Currabeg, which lies maybe a mile southeast of Kilcaskan and is near Kilvinane and Kilvurra. Now I am wondering if perhaps the illegitimate Michael, son of Kate Donovan, has come into play.
One obvious line of research is to look at the civil registration birth records for some of the other children, to confirm the mother was Ann Sullivan. Other interesting facts that have sprung up - present at the birth of Stephen Mahony was a Mary Donovan of Curraghalicky, another place in the same neighborhood. And Michael of Toughbaun is listed as a grocer in Francis Guy's directory of 1914. Perhaps at one time Tim the baker was an apprentice shopkeeper?
For now, I will leave this research as it is, and revisit it later.
Saturday, April 7, 2012
The Mahonys of Bohernabredagh, version 2.0
When the church records went online in October 2011, I was able to more conclusively link the Mahonys of Bredagh (jpg pdf) to my Grandmother's Collins line. However, there remain many open questions, specifically, whether and how they are related to Mahonys in Clashduff and Tonafora, Toughbaun, and in Minanes. Recently I've added Castledonovan to the list of Mahony locations of interest.
Up to now I had assumed that the Mahonys along and south of R586 were a somewhat different set than the ones in the north part of Drimoleague parish. Now I'm not so sure. I had originally based my assumption on the names I've seen on both sides of the road. For example, I haven't yet found anybody named Cain, and I don't know if there are Timothys deep in the north side. But those names occur very frequently along R586 and on the south side.
The cultural division between the north and the south is not a complete figment of my imagination. When I told my aunt about talking on the phone to one of her first cousins who grew up in Ceancullig, she asked me if he "sounded rough." She then explained that even they in Bauravilla had a hard time understanding the speech of "the people in the mountains" even though those "mountains" were hills just a few miles away within bicycling distance! My Bauravilla-raised aunt, in turn, told me about how the nuns in the convent school in Skibbereen, just a few miles south, would constantly correct her speech and pronunciation.
That was a digression.
The Mahony names that are practically ubiquitous in the area are Denis and Daniel. The earliest Mahony in my direct line was Denis (1788-1872), who married Catherine Hurley (date unknown). Given that their youngest known child was Kate (1840), I would not expect Denis and Catherine to have been married too long before 1820. Unfortunately the Drimoleague & Drinagh church records don't go back before about 1818. The earliest child found in the church records was Patrick (1822), followed by my gg-grandmother Mary (1823). There isn't a baptism record available for him, but based on census and death records, I believe there was a child Cain born before the first available baptism records.
Mary Mahony married my gg-grandfather Daniel Collins of Adrigole and I believe they first lived there, in Castlehaven civil parish, before moving out to Cullomane East on the west edge of Caheragh civil parish, near Bantry, around 1850. Catherine and Laurence, their two oldest children, were born in probably in Adrigole and the rest of the Collins children were born in Cullomane. One of those children, whose name remains somewhat unreadable to me, was born in 1856. That child's baptism sponsors were Daniel Mahony and Mary Burke.
I put Daniel Mahony and Mary Burke in the church records search engine and lo and behold, a couple with those names turned up in Castledonovan. I turned up three children for them: Denis (1838), Margaret (1840), and William (1842). The reason I am paying attention to Castledonovan and the area north of the R586 is because I have a good autosomal DNA match who has Mahony ancestry in Clodagh, which lies north of R586. This is the first piece of evidence I have found placing some of my Mahonys on my match's side of the road.
It isn't clear when Daniel Mahony and Mary Burke married and whether they were roaming around. There are records of couples with these names married in Rosscarbery (1824) and in Enniskeane & Desertserges (1836). But children show up in 1823 (maybe illegitimate) and an odd one pops up in 1830 in Aughadown church parish. So far the marriage record in Enniskeane & Desertserges looks like a better match, and there is a Daniel Hurley as a witness - possibly a relative through Catherine Hurley. I find it somewhat odd that there were only three children in Dromdaleague, but the famine could have put an end to their family production capacity.
If Daniel was an older brother of my gg-grandmother, he strikes me as somewhat young to have married in 1836 let alone 1824 ! So the evidence is weak that he's my gg-grandmother's older brother; I think he may have been a first cousin or an uncle. Supporting that theory is the difficulty turning up men named Daniel in the descendant branches of the Bredagh Mahonys, though I did manage to find a few. The Daniels I found were among the youngest children in their families suggesting to me it was not a "high priority" name. There are plenty of Daniel Mahonys elsewhere. For now I am putting Daniel in the tree as an older brother even though I believe this is not correct.
If Daniel and Mary were moving around and if Daniel was an uncle, it could explain why he is not recorded in Castledonovan in Griffiths Valuation, although there is a Castledonovan Daniel in the Dromdaleague Tithe Applotment and there are Daniels in neighboring Garranes North and in Deelish recorded in Griffiths.
I am somewhat more confident in data indicating that my gg-grandmother's older brother Patrick married Catherine Hayes, though the marriage date for the record - 1861 - causes me to question whether I have the correct marriage record. There were apparently children born well before that date, and I haven't found any marked illegitimate.
So my work has progressed in tracing these branches of the Bredagh Mahony family:
Cain Mahony - Remained unmarried and stayed in Bredagh
Patrick Mahony and Catherine Hayes of Rearahinagh - Probably deceased by 1901 with their son remaining
Mary Mahony and Daniel Collins of Cullomane East - My line; Mary was widowed by 1901
Honora (Norry) Mahony - unknown
Margaret Mahony and Denis Collins of Lissane - Possibly also related through the Collinses
Timothy Mahony and Mary Ann Donovan of Rearahinagh
Denis Mahony and Mary Anne McCarthy of Bredagh
Kate Mahony - Witnessed several baptisms through 1869
What I still have not done is link any of these people to anybody in Clodagh, the home of my DNA match's family. None of the Clodagh Mahonys have names that correspond to mine, except for a Denis Mahony baptism sponsor, and there were a lot of men named Denis Mahony running around back then.
Up to now I had assumed that the Mahonys along and south of R586 were a somewhat different set than the ones in the north part of Drimoleague parish. Now I'm not so sure. I had originally based my assumption on the names I've seen on both sides of the road. For example, I haven't yet found anybody named Cain, and I don't know if there are Timothys deep in the north side. But those names occur very frequently along R586 and on the south side.
The cultural division between the north and the south is not a complete figment of my imagination. When I told my aunt about talking on the phone to one of her first cousins who grew up in Ceancullig, she asked me if he "sounded rough." She then explained that even they in Bauravilla had a hard time understanding the speech of "the people in the mountains" even though those "mountains" were hills just a few miles away within bicycling distance! My Bauravilla-raised aunt, in turn, told me about how the nuns in the convent school in Skibbereen, just a few miles south, would constantly correct her speech and pronunciation.
That was a digression.
The Mahony names that are practically ubiquitous in the area are Denis and Daniel. The earliest Mahony in my direct line was Denis (1788-1872), who married Catherine Hurley (date unknown). Given that their youngest known child was Kate (1840), I would not expect Denis and Catherine to have been married too long before 1820. Unfortunately the Drimoleague & Drinagh church records don't go back before about 1818. The earliest child found in the church records was Patrick (1822), followed by my gg-grandmother Mary (1823). There isn't a baptism record available for him, but based on census and death records, I believe there was a child Cain born before the first available baptism records.
Mary Mahony married my gg-grandfather Daniel Collins of Adrigole and I believe they first lived there, in Castlehaven civil parish, before moving out to Cullomane East on the west edge of Caheragh civil parish, near Bantry, around 1850. Catherine and Laurence, their two oldest children, were born in probably in Adrigole and the rest of the Collins children were born in Cullomane. One of those children, whose name remains somewhat unreadable to me, was born in 1856. That child's baptism sponsors were Daniel Mahony and Mary Burke.
I put Daniel Mahony and Mary Burke in the church records search engine and lo and behold, a couple with those names turned up in Castledonovan. I turned up three children for them: Denis (1838), Margaret (1840), and William (1842). The reason I am paying attention to Castledonovan and the area north of the R586 is because I have a good autosomal DNA match who has Mahony ancestry in Clodagh, which lies north of R586. This is the first piece of evidence I have found placing some of my Mahonys on my match's side of the road.
It isn't clear when Daniel Mahony and Mary Burke married and whether they were roaming around. There are records of couples with these names married in Rosscarbery (1824) and in Enniskeane & Desertserges (1836). But children show up in 1823 (maybe illegitimate) and an odd one pops up in 1830 in Aughadown church parish. So far the marriage record in Enniskeane & Desertserges looks like a better match, and there is a Daniel Hurley as a witness - possibly a relative through Catherine Hurley. I find it somewhat odd that there were only three children in Dromdaleague, but the famine could have put an end to their family production capacity.
If Daniel was an older brother of my gg-grandmother, he strikes me as somewhat young to have married in 1836 let alone 1824 ! So the evidence is weak that he's my gg-grandmother's older brother; I think he may have been a first cousin or an uncle. Supporting that theory is the difficulty turning up men named Daniel in the descendant branches of the Bredagh Mahonys, though I did manage to find a few. The Daniels I found were among the youngest children in their families suggesting to me it was not a "high priority" name. There are plenty of Daniel Mahonys elsewhere. For now I am putting Daniel in the tree as an older brother even though I believe this is not correct.
If Daniel and Mary were moving around and if Daniel was an uncle, it could explain why he is not recorded in Castledonovan in Griffiths Valuation, although there is a Castledonovan Daniel in the Dromdaleague Tithe Applotment and there are Daniels in neighboring Garranes North and in Deelish recorded in Griffiths.
I am somewhat more confident in data indicating that my gg-grandmother's older brother Patrick married Catherine Hayes, though the marriage date for the record - 1861 - causes me to question whether I have the correct marriage record. There were apparently children born well before that date, and I haven't found any marked illegitimate.
So my work has progressed in tracing these branches of the Bredagh Mahony family:
Cain Mahony - Remained unmarried and stayed in Bredagh
Patrick Mahony and Catherine Hayes of Rearahinagh - Probably deceased by 1901 with their son remaining
Mary Mahony and Daniel Collins of Cullomane East - My line; Mary was widowed by 1901
Honora (Norry) Mahony - unknown
Margaret Mahony and Denis Collins of Lissane - Possibly also related through the Collinses
Timothy Mahony and Mary Ann Donovan of Rearahinagh
Denis Mahony and Mary Anne McCarthy of Bredagh
Kate Mahony - Witnessed several baptisms through 1869
What I still have not done is link any of these people to anybody in Clodagh, the home of my DNA match's family. None of the Clodagh Mahonys have names that correspond to mine, except for a Denis Mahony baptism sponsor, and there were a lot of men named Denis Mahony running around back then.
Sunday, April 1, 2012
The Hurley-Herlihy-Cahalane Connection
Genealogy is full of cases in which you are unsuccessfully able to research one line but in the process of researching that line you stumble across information that fills out another line. Such is the case with Grandmom's Adrigole Collinses. After relaying this information to a Hurley cousin last night, I thought it would be a suitable posting.
It all started with an obituary from the Southern Star dated November 21, 1903 for one Michael Herlihy, a national teacher from Cloonkeen who died fairly young.
"Mrs. Young", listed as a cousin, had to have been Ellen Hurley December 17, 1852 from Coolnagarrane, who married William Young of North Street. Ellen was already widowed by the 1901 census.
"Lawrence, Jeremiah, and John Collins" were listed as cousins. They must have been out of Adrigole. The question is - how were they related to Michael Herlihy? There were other Collinses in Adrigole and they were notably not mentioned. Specifically, John Collins, son of Jeremiah, was by now a priest and he would not have been listed this way. So I immediately began to think these men were the son of John, and the Herlihy relationship could have come through Catherine Sheely, who married John Collins 30-Nov-1852. However, I have reason to believe Catherine was the daughter of John Sheily and Ellen Corcoran from around Aghadown (mistranscribed as Kelly), and as there was no obvious connection to Herlihys I did not try pursuing it.
My triple-great-grandparents were Michael Hurley and Bridget Cahalane of Coolnagarrane, in Abbeystrowry parish. Michael and Bridget married 25-May-1838 in Kilmacabea R.C. Parish. Witnesses, if I'm reading the record correctly, were Bryan Adams and Cate Sheahan.
Michael Hurley may have had a sister Ellen, who appears in the Skibbereen church registers January 22, 1815. There is other evidence strongly suggesting she was a relative and went on to marry John Sweeney February 22, 1846. Michael and Ellen probably had a brother Daniel. It is through Daniel that the Herlihy connection, and possible second Cahalane connection lie.
This Daniel and his wife Honora McCarthy were the parents of the aforementioned Ellen Hurley Young. Another daughter, Kate (1855) married Michael Herlihy the schoolteacher in 1886. Hence the Herlihy-Hurley connection.
What about Cahalanes?
Michael Herlihy's parents were Denis Herlihy and Mary Regan. If I'm reading the records right they married in Kilmacabea R.C. parish February 8, 1834. One Cornelius Cahalane was a witness.
The odd thing is that I cannot find any children until May 1844, and I think the child's name was Johanna, who went on to marry a Denis Leahy. Then another gap, and Michael Herlihy was baptized April 13, 1851. Then twins John and Thomas, April 7, 1855. John's Godfather was a Denis Cahalane.
The 10 year gap before any children appear, and then the twins some 21 years after the marriage, makes me wonder if I'm reading the records right. But that is what I have so far.
Update: I have found many more children. Patrick, baptized 12-Apr-1835; Daniel, bap. 9-Aug-1840; Denis, bap. 14-Dec-1842; Johanna, bap. May-1844; Catherine, bap. 19-Apr-1846 (her mother is recorded as Catherine, which I think is a mistake); Michael, bap. 13-Apr-1851; William, bap. 18-Apr-1853; and John and Thomas, bap. 7-Apr-1855.
Michael Hurley = Bridget Cahalane had four boys: John 1839; Patrick 1841; Daniel 1843; and Michael 1849.
The Godmother of John 1839, my gg-grandfather, was one Catherine Cahalane. The Godmother of Patrick 1841 was Mary Cahalane. I had assumed they had only the four boys, but last night discovered a missing fifth child. Ellen was baptized September 21, 1845 (mistranscribed as Hooly). Her Godfather was one Michael Cahalane.
I think I know who this Michael Cahalane is, and I have corresponded with some of his descendants. He married Honora Donovan in 1851. The Godfather of son Michael, 1861, was one John Hurley.
The oldest child of my gg-grandparents, John Hurley and Margaret Hourihane, was Michael, 1868. One Michael Cahalane was the Godfather. Then any documented connections with Cahalanes stop. I have not checked the extended family of Daniel Hurley = Honora McCarthy for Cahalane sponsors. Ellen Hurley Sweeney's family did not have Cahalane sponsors from what I have dug up so far.
I cannot find a meaningful death record for a Bridget Hurley after 1863, so I assume that Bridget Cahalane Hurley died before civil registration. What is her relationship to Cornelius Cahalane, who witnessed the wedding of Denis Herlihy and Mary Regan, and to Michael Cahalane? Is this Michael the Michael Cahalane from Cloonkeen, whose descendants I correspond with? And how were the Herlihys linked to Collinses in Adrigole?
It all started with an obituary from the Southern Star dated November 21, 1903 for one Michael Herlihy, a national teacher from Cloonkeen who died fairly young.
"Mrs. Young", listed as a cousin, had to have been Ellen Hurley December 17, 1852 from Coolnagarrane, who married William Young of North Street. Ellen was already widowed by the 1901 census.
"Lawrence, Jeremiah, and John Collins" were listed as cousins. They must have been out of Adrigole. The question is - how were they related to Michael Herlihy? There were other Collinses in Adrigole and they were notably not mentioned. Specifically, John Collins, son of Jeremiah, was by now a priest and he would not have been listed this way. So I immediately began to think these men were the son of John, and the Herlihy relationship could have come through Catherine Sheely, who married John Collins 30-Nov-1852. However, I have reason to believe Catherine was the daughter of John Sheily and Ellen Corcoran from around Aghadown (mistranscribed as Kelly), and as there was no obvious connection to Herlihys I did not try pursuing it.
My triple-great-grandparents were Michael Hurley and Bridget Cahalane of Coolnagarrane, in Abbeystrowry parish. Michael and Bridget married 25-May-1838 in Kilmacabea R.C. Parish. Witnesses, if I'm reading the record correctly, were Bryan Adams and Cate Sheahan.
Michael Hurley may have had a sister Ellen, who appears in the Skibbereen church registers January 22, 1815. There is other evidence strongly suggesting she was a relative and went on to marry John Sweeney February 22, 1846. Michael and Ellen probably had a brother Daniel. It is through Daniel that the Herlihy connection, and possible second Cahalane connection lie.
This Daniel and his wife Honora McCarthy were the parents of the aforementioned Ellen Hurley Young. Another daughter, Kate (1855) married Michael Herlihy the schoolteacher in 1886. Hence the Herlihy-Hurley connection.
What about Cahalanes?
Michael Herlihy's parents were Denis Herlihy and Mary Regan. If I'm reading the records right they married in Kilmacabea R.C. parish February 8, 1834. One Cornelius Cahalane was a witness.
The odd thing is that I cannot find any children until May 1844, and I think the child's name was Johanna, who went on to marry a Denis Leahy. Then another gap, and Michael Herlihy was baptized April 13, 1851. Then twins John and Thomas, April 7, 1855. John's Godfather was a Denis Cahalane.
The 10 year gap before any children appear, and then the twins some 21 years after the marriage, makes me wonder if I'm reading the records right. But that is what I have so far.
Update: I have found many more children. Patrick, baptized 12-Apr-1835; Daniel, bap. 9-Aug-1840; Denis, bap. 14-Dec-1842; Johanna, bap. May-1844; Catherine, bap. 19-Apr-1846 (her mother is recorded as Catherine, which I think is a mistake); Michael, bap. 13-Apr-1851; William, bap. 18-Apr-1853; and John and Thomas, bap. 7-Apr-1855.
Michael Hurley = Bridget Cahalane had four boys: John 1839; Patrick 1841; Daniel 1843; and Michael 1849.
The Godmother of John 1839, my gg-grandfather, was one Catherine Cahalane. The Godmother of Patrick 1841 was Mary Cahalane. I had assumed they had only the four boys, but last night discovered a missing fifth child. Ellen was baptized September 21, 1845 (mistranscribed as Hooly). Her Godfather was one Michael Cahalane.
I think I know who this Michael Cahalane is, and I have corresponded with some of his descendants. He married Honora Donovan in 1851. The Godfather of son Michael, 1861, was one John Hurley.
The oldest child of my gg-grandparents, John Hurley and Margaret Hourihane, was Michael, 1868. One Michael Cahalane was the Godfather. Then any documented connections with Cahalanes stop. I have not checked the extended family of Daniel Hurley = Honora McCarthy for Cahalane sponsors. Ellen Hurley Sweeney's family did not have Cahalane sponsors from what I have dug up so far.
I cannot find a meaningful death record for a Bridget Hurley after 1863, so I assume that Bridget Cahalane Hurley died before civil registration. What is her relationship to Cornelius Cahalane, who witnessed the wedding of Denis Herlihy and Mary Regan, and to Michael Cahalane? Is this Michael the Michael Cahalane from Cloonkeen, whose descendants I correspond with? And how were the Herlihys linked to Collinses in Adrigole?
Friday, March 23, 2012
The Collinses of Coornishal
For quite a while now I have believed that a number of people named Collins in Coornishal were somehow related to my Grandmom's ancestral Collins ancestors in Adrigole. The evidence is substantial. I am going to list my pieces of evidence.
1) There is a Laurence Collins (my ggg-grandfather "Larr" - 1783-1867) in Adrigole in the Castlehaven Tithe Applotment book of 1825. He shared a lot with somebody named Jerry Collins. Other Collinses listed in Adrigole were William and Daniel.
2) There was a Lawrence Collins in adjacent Coornishal in the Tithe Applotment book of Kilmacabea of 1829. He was adjacent to a John Collins. Another Collins there was one Timothy.
Laurence Collins is not a particularly common name, like John or Daniel. For now, I am inclined to think these listings for Laurence were the same man.
3) The father of a recently-discovered relative back east was one Laurence Collins from Licknavar and Gortshanecrone. Her maternal grandmother was the daughter of Jeremiah of Adrigole; her parents were somehow cousins. This relative is of my mother's generation, she is a third cousin in two different ways, and probably a cousin a third way. We are trying to establish precisely how in the third way. In other words, the Licknavar Collinses were related to the Adrigole Collinses and we don't know exactly how.
4) As she remembers her father telling the story, some "Corn" or "Coran" Collinses peeled off from north of Skibbereen and headed south of town probably in the first half of the 19th century.
[note: I am well aware of the townlands of Corran North, Corran Middle, and Corran South in Kilmacabea, and that there were Collinses in this area. So I am keeping the Corran townlands on the backburner.]
5) In the Cullomane East branch (my gg-grandparents), a Catherine Collins was a Godmother in 1863. Who was this Catherine exactly? One of my strongest autosomal DNA matches has a solid family history out of Licknavar. We have not been able to establish a common shared ancestor, but someone in his tree named Sullivan was apparently a baptism Godfather in the tree of my east coast relative with Licknavar ancestry. A Catherine Collins (est born 1800) is also in his tree. Someone named Croston in my DNA match's tree lived on lots shared with Licknavar Collinses in Griffith's Valuation.
6) The May 9, 1903 obituary of Jeremiah Collins of Adrigole in the Southern Star lists John Collins and Denis Collins of Coornishal as cousins.
And now for a digression. There was apparently a tradition of naming women Diana in this extended family group, though it's difficult to understand why the name was popular in some branches and non-existent in others. My gg-grandfather Danny Larr of Cullomane East had a daughter Diana, who emigrated to Australia. Danny Larr had another daughter Margaret who named her daughter Diana. (This latter Diana married a Daniel Hallahan and then sort of disappeared. That family remains one of my open research projects.)
There's more. Larr may have also had a daughter Johanna, who married a John Donovan roughly 1851 and eventually settled in Ardagh, Rosscarbery. They named a daughter Dinah. This Dinah died a spinster.
A Dina Collins pops up frequently as a Godmother in numerous baptisms - for one of Johanna's children, and for children of John and of Jeremiah in Adrigole. These sponsorships occurred from 1852 through 1863, presumably the same woman.
A Diana Collins from Adrigole, with a father named Laurence, married Timothy Sullivan of Clooncugger in 1868. She had three children - none named Laurence or Diana - and she died in 1892.
Neither John of Adrigole, nor Jeremiah of Adrigole, nor anybody down in Licknavar had a daughter named Diana.
But somebody in Coornishal did ! I stumbled upon this family digging through the Kilmacabea church records that are online.
Which brings me back to my evidence list.
Unfortunately the records for Kilmacabea start relatively late, in 1832. So I may have only a partial family. I cannot find a marriage record for Tom Collins and Kate Foley, who lived in Coornishal in the 1840's, which leads me to believe she could have been from Castlehaven parish, which has no marriage records available.
Timothy, baptized 15-Jan-1840. His father was written as John. I think this could be an error. His sponsors were Michael Foley and Ellen Collins.
Patrick, baptized 14-Mar-1841. Sponsors Con Foley and Mary H?
7) Lawrence, baptized 27-Mar-1843. Sponsors Daniel Collins and Kate Collins. This Daniel could well have been my gg-grandfather, before he married Mary Mahony in 1845 and moved to Cullomane East around 1851.
Catherine, baptized 16-Dec-1846. Sponsors Tim Foley and Ellen Foley.
Tom, baptized 25-Aug-1850. Sponsors Jerry? Collins and Mary Collins.
Cornelius, baptized 6-Mar-1853. Sponsors Laurence Collins and Kate Shealy. These sponsors could well be Larr and his relatively new daughter-in-law, married to John of Adrigole in 1852.
8) Dinah, baptized 13-Jan-1856. Sponsors John Collins and Johanna Foley.
So, I have: adjacency in land valuation records; family lore; a newspaper obit; DNA; and family naming traditions all strongly suggesting a link between Adrigole, Coornishal, and Licknavar. Tracking a family naming tradition only works when the names are uncommon or downright rare.
Unfortunately, with Kilmacabea church records starting late (1830's), and Castlehaven & Myross church records starting REALLY late (1840's) and with no marriages, I have to wait for somebody else to come forward or some other evidence to turn up to glue this together. Once I am settled in from my move to Salt Lake City in April, I'll be hitting the land valuation records pre and post Griffith's to see if I can squeeze any additional information out of available records.
1) There is a Laurence Collins (my ggg-grandfather "Larr" - 1783-1867) in Adrigole in the Castlehaven Tithe Applotment book of 1825. He shared a lot with somebody named Jerry Collins. Other Collinses listed in Adrigole were William and Daniel.
2) There was a Lawrence Collins in adjacent Coornishal in the Tithe Applotment book of Kilmacabea of 1829. He was adjacent to a John Collins. Another Collins there was one Timothy.
Laurence Collins is not a particularly common name, like John or Daniel. For now, I am inclined to think these listings for Laurence were the same man.
3) The father of a recently-discovered relative back east was one Laurence Collins from Licknavar and Gortshanecrone. Her maternal grandmother was the daughter of Jeremiah of Adrigole; her parents were somehow cousins. This relative is of my mother's generation, she is a third cousin in two different ways, and probably a cousin a third way. We are trying to establish precisely how in the third way. In other words, the Licknavar Collinses were related to the Adrigole Collinses and we don't know exactly how.
4) As she remembers her father telling the story, some "Corn" or "Coran" Collinses peeled off from north of Skibbereen and headed south of town probably in the first half of the 19th century.
[note: I am well aware of the townlands of Corran North, Corran Middle, and Corran South in Kilmacabea, and that there were Collinses in this area. So I am keeping the Corran townlands on the backburner.]
5) In the Cullomane East branch (my gg-grandparents), a Catherine Collins was a Godmother in 1863. Who was this Catherine exactly? One of my strongest autosomal DNA matches has a solid family history out of Licknavar. We have not been able to establish a common shared ancestor, but someone in his tree named Sullivan was apparently a baptism Godfather in the tree of my east coast relative with Licknavar ancestry. A Catherine Collins (est born 1800) is also in his tree. Someone named Croston in my DNA match's tree lived on lots shared with Licknavar Collinses in Griffith's Valuation.
6) The May 9, 1903 obituary of Jeremiah Collins of Adrigole in the Southern Star lists John Collins and Denis Collins of Coornishal as cousins.
And now for a digression. There was apparently a tradition of naming women Diana in this extended family group, though it's difficult to understand why the name was popular in some branches and non-existent in others. My gg-grandfather Danny Larr of Cullomane East had a daughter Diana, who emigrated to Australia. Danny Larr had another daughter Margaret who named her daughter Diana. (This latter Diana married a Daniel Hallahan and then sort of disappeared. That family remains one of my open research projects.)
There's more. Larr may have also had a daughter Johanna, who married a John Donovan roughly 1851 and eventually settled in Ardagh, Rosscarbery. They named a daughter Dinah. This Dinah died a spinster.
A Dina Collins pops up frequently as a Godmother in numerous baptisms - for one of Johanna's children, and for children of John and of Jeremiah in Adrigole. These sponsorships occurred from 1852 through 1863, presumably the same woman.
A Diana Collins from Adrigole, with a father named Laurence, married Timothy Sullivan of Clooncugger in 1868. She had three children - none named Laurence or Diana - and she died in 1892.
Neither John of Adrigole, nor Jeremiah of Adrigole, nor anybody down in Licknavar had a daughter named Diana.
But somebody in Coornishal did ! I stumbled upon this family digging through the Kilmacabea church records that are online.
Which brings me back to my evidence list.
Unfortunately the records for Kilmacabea start relatively late, in 1832. So I may have only a partial family. I cannot find a marriage record for Tom Collins and Kate Foley, who lived in Coornishal in the 1840's, which leads me to believe she could have been from Castlehaven parish, which has no marriage records available.
Timothy, baptized 15-Jan-1840. His father was written as John. I think this could be an error. His sponsors were Michael Foley and Ellen Collins.
Patrick, baptized 14-Mar-1841. Sponsors Con Foley and Mary H?
7) Lawrence, baptized 27-Mar-1843. Sponsors Daniel Collins and Kate Collins. This Daniel could well have been my gg-grandfather, before he married Mary Mahony in 1845 and moved to Cullomane East around 1851.
Catherine, baptized 16-Dec-1846. Sponsors Tim Foley and Ellen Foley.
Tom, baptized 25-Aug-1850. Sponsors Jerry? Collins and Mary Collins.
Cornelius, baptized 6-Mar-1853. Sponsors Laurence Collins and Kate Shealy. These sponsors could well be Larr and his relatively new daughter-in-law, married to John of Adrigole in 1852.
8) Dinah, baptized 13-Jan-1856. Sponsors John Collins and Johanna Foley.
So, I have: adjacency in land valuation records; family lore; a newspaper obit; DNA; and family naming traditions all strongly suggesting a link between Adrigole, Coornishal, and Licknavar. Tracking a family naming tradition only works when the names are uncommon or downright rare.
Unfortunately, with Kilmacabea church records starting late (1830's), and Castlehaven & Myross church records starting REALLY late (1840's) and with no marriages, I have to wait for somebody else to come forward or some other evidence to turn up to glue this together. Once I am settled in from my move to Salt Lake City in April, I'll be hitting the land valuation records pre and post Griffith's to see if I can squeeze any additional information out of available records.
Wednesday, February 29, 2012
James Collins and Catherine Driscoll of Russagh
James Collins and Catherine Driscoll married 4-Mar-1862 and were in Russagh (Skibbereen Rural) in the 1901 census. My eye was first drawn to them when I was researching a girl named Noria Driscoll. Noria was living in Lower Lissane in 1901 with her grandparents Michael Collins and Ellen Driscoll Collins (not known if the two Driscoll families were closely related). Noria's sister Juliann was staying with James and Catherine in Russagh. Juliann is listed as a niece. Whose niece? The girls' father Michael Driscoll lived in Currabeg, in Castlehaven parish, with several other daughters. Michael Driscoll was a widower.
Working on the assumption that Catherine Driscoll Collins of Russagh and Michael Driscoll of Currabeg were siblings, I did some preliminary research in the online church records but did not find THE records that would have clearly identified them. Michael Driscoll of Currabeg apparently went by Cadogan, as evidenced by his and Johanna Collins's first son born September 1880, registered as Jeremiah Cadogan but baptized in Castlehaven R.C. parish as Driscoll. Interestingly, Catherine of Russagh recorded her name as Cadogan for the Skibbereen baptism of her and James's daughter Catherine, 22-Dec-1876. So I think there is a link. Michael Driscoll Cadogan's oldest son was named Jeremiah, and James and Catherine have a Jeremiah Driscoll showing up at several of their family church events. So Catherine's and Michael's father was probably a Jeremiah Driscoll.
I was so absorbed with the Driscolls that it did not initially occur to me that there could also be a Lissane Collins family link with James, but I discovered a relationship while researching Humphrey Collins of Lissane. Besides Jeremiah Driscoll, a Humphrey Collins witnessed the James = Catherine wedding in 1862. Daughter Hanora was born May 1869, and one Laurence Hourihane was the Godfather. There weren't many men named Laurence Hourihane in the area, and there were definitely a few who resided in Tooreen, adjacent to Lower Lissane. Michael Collins was the Godfather of Michael, born Oct 1871. This sponsor could not have been Michael (1790-1870), and married to Mary Donovan, but rather somebody of the younger generation. Similarly, Humphrey Collins was the Godfather of Denis, born May 1879. This could not have been the Humphrey (1785-1873), and married to Johanna Barnane, but a younger Humphrey.
I have the death record of James Collins and he was 67 in 1907. That would place his birth year around 1840. The 1901 census listed his age as 63. That could push his birth year forward to 1838.
So where does that leave me? Very stuck. The oldest son of James and Catherine was named Michael, which would automatically lead me to think that James's father was Michael. There are a Michael Collins and Mary Donovan in Lissane with a son James born 1829. Currently, I model the family with James (1829) married to Honora Collins in 1861. Their first son was also named Michael (1868). Arrgh!
The oldest daughter of James (1829) and Honora Collins of Lissane was named Mary, if Skibbereen Heritage and I are reading very difficult to read church records correctly. This Mary may have been named after grandmother Mary Donovan.
The oldest daughter of James (?) and Catherine Driscoll was named Johanna. This daughter could have been named after Johanna Barnane Collins, but one problem is that there wasn't a son named Humphrey. The other problem is that James, the son of Humphrey Collins and Johanna Barnane, was born in 1833, at least five years before what the 1901 census and the 1907 death record suggest.
There is a third possibility, of which I have absolutely no proof. My grandfather's paternal grandfather, Michael Collins (1822-1901), was the son of a different Humphrey Collins and an Ellen Sweeney. [This Ellen Sweeny may have been related to a Catherine Sweeny who married Laurence Hourihane of Tooreen, but that's a whole other problem.] There are no records of other children of Humphrey and Ellen, and no marriage record, but there is some evidence the same Humphrey later married a Mary Galvin O'Brien and had several more children. Perhaps this James in Russagh was their son, though there is the same problem of James and Catherine not having a son named Humphrey. Finding a baptism record for James would support this theory, but I have not yet found one. Since their other children were baptized in Skibbereen R.C. parish I am looking in the same parish. Some Skibbereen records are extremely faded.
There were so many Humphrey Collinses running around that maybe James and Catherine decided to do something wild and crazy and break tradition.
I got started on this wild goose chase because I was researching Noria Driscoll (1890-1903). Noria's mother was Johanna Collins, whom I believe was the daughter of the aforementioned Michael (1822-1901) and Ellen Driscoll Collins (1830-1919), and my great-grandfather's oldest sister. There is no civil registration record of the marriage of Johanna Collins and Michael Driscoll/Cadogan that I can find in the online index, though there is a church record of a Hannah Collins and Michael Driscoll married in Caheragh November 1879. Nor can I find a death record for Johanna Collins Driscoll/Cadogan.
Working on the assumption that Catherine Driscoll Collins of Russagh and Michael Driscoll of Currabeg were siblings, I did some preliminary research in the online church records but did not find THE records that would have clearly identified them. Michael Driscoll of Currabeg apparently went by Cadogan, as evidenced by his and Johanna Collins's first son born September 1880, registered as Jeremiah Cadogan but baptized in Castlehaven R.C. parish as Driscoll. Interestingly, Catherine of Russagh recorded her name as Cadogan for the Skibbereen baptism of her and James's daughter Catherine, 22-Dec-1876. So I think there is a link. Michael Driscoll Cadogan's oldest son was named Jeremiah, and James and Catherine have a Jeremiah Driscoll showing up at several of their family church events. So Catherine's and Michael's father was probably a Jeremiah Driscoll.
I was so absorbed with the Driscolls that it did not initially occur to me that there could also be a Lissane Collins family link with James, but I discovered a relationship while researching Humphrey Collins of Lissane. Besides Jeremiah Driscoll, a Humphrey Collins witnessed the James = Catherine wedding in 1862. Daughter Hanora was born May 1869, and one Laurence Hourihane was the Godfather. There weren't many men named Laurence Hourihane in the area, and there were definitely a few who resided in Tooreen, adjacent to Lower Lissane. Michael Collins was the Godfather of Michael, born Oct 1871. This sponsor could not have been Michael (1790-1870), and married to Mary Donovan, but rather somebody of the younger generation. Similarly, Humphrey Collins was the Godfather of Denis, born May 1879. This could not have been the Humphrey (1785-1873), and married to Johanna Barnane, but a younger Humphrey.
I have the death record of James Collins and he was 67 in 1907. That would place his birth year around 1840. The 1901 census listed his age as 63. That could push his birth year forward to 1838.
So where does that leave me? Very stuck. The oldest son of James and Catherine was named Michael, which would automatically lead me to think that James's father was Michael. There are a Michael Collins and Mary Donovan in Lissane with a son James born 1829. Currently, I model the family with James (1829) married to Honora Collins in 1861. Their first son was also named Michael (1868). Arrgh!
The oldest daughter of James (1829) and Honora Collins of Lissane was named Mary, if Skibbereen Heritage and I are reading very difficult to read church records correctly. This Mary may have been named after grandmother Mary Donovan.
The oldest daughter of James (?) and Catherine Driscoll was named Johanna. This daughter could have been named after Johanna Barnane Collins, but one problem is that there wasn't a son named Humphrey. The other problem is that James, the son of Humphrey Collins and Johanna Barnane, was born in 1833, at least five years before what the 1901 census and the 1907 death record suggest.
There is a third possibility, of which I have absolutely no proof. My grandfather's paternal grandfather, Michael Collins (1822-1901), was the son of a different Humphrey Collins and an Ellen Sweeney. [This Ellen Sweeny may have been related to a Catherine Sweeny who married Laurence Hourihane of Tooreen, but that's a whole other problem.] There are no records of other children of Humphrey and Ellen, and no marriage record, but there is some evidence the same Humphrey later married a Mary Galvin O'Brien and had several more children. Perhaps this James in Russagh was their son, though there is the same problem of James and Catherine not having a son named Humphrey. Finding a baptism record for James would support this theory, but I have not yet found one. Since their other children were baptized in Skibbereen R.C. parish I am looking in the same parish. Some Skibbereen records are extremely faded.
There were so many Humphrey Collinses running around that maybe James and Catherine decided to do something wild and crazy and break tradition.
I got started on this wild goose chase because I was researching Noria Driscoll (1890-1903). Noria's mother was Johanna Collins, whom I believe was the daughter of the aforementioned Michael (1822-1901) and Ellen Driscoll Collins (1830-1919), and my great-grandfather's oldest sister. There is no civil registration record of the marriage of Johanna Collins and Michael Driscoll/Cadogan that I can find in the online index, though there is a church record of a Hannah Collins and Michael Driscoll married in Caheragh November 1879. Nor can I find a death record for Johanna Collins Driscoll/Cadogan.
Wednesday, January 11, 2012
Kilmoe Tithe Applotment transcription is now online
Kilmoe parish encompasses Mizen Head peninsula, and includes Crookhaven and Goleen. It appears that the parish was enumerated in 1828.
I was able to get the transcription of Kilmoe completed sooner than I expected. However, the next TA book transcriptions will not be appearing until mid to late summer, after we settle in from our move to Salt Lake City this spring.
Transcriptions for the Skibbereen area.
Submit a correction.
I was able to get the transcription of Kilmoe completed sooner than I expected. However, the next TA book transcriptions will not be appearing until mid to late summer, after we settle in from our move to Salt Lake City this spring.
Transcriptions for the Skibbereen area.
Submit a correction.
Thursday, January 5, 2012
Hurleys of Coolnagarrane, version 2.0
I have updated my information on the Coolnagarrane Hurleys. I am waiting for some info from the UK to correct an error in the Tomalin branch; other than that this is the best I can do.
I cannot conclusively prove some of these relationships, and will have to rely on people "in the know" to fill me in.
I think my ggg-grandfather Michael Hurley had a brother Daniel, who married Honora McCarthy in 1850. As far as I can tell, Norry was a McCarthy Sowny from Drominidy. (Their son Daniel married a Julia McCarthy in 1894; she was also a McCarthy-Sowny, and also from Drominidy.)
I think Michael and Daniel had a younger sister Ellen, whose baptism record made it online (1815). (The Hurley records are all in Skibbereen Creagh & Sullon.) Her parents are recorded as John Hurley and Jane McCarthy, no residence given.
I think this Ellen married a John Sweeny in 1846. Michael Hurley and Daniel Hurley were witnesses. I think the Sweeny family lived at various times in Tooreennasillane, Kilnaclasha, and Lakelands.
The parents - John Hurley and Jane McCarthy, show up on the baptism record for a Randal Hurley in Coolnagarrane, 1814, parents James Hurley and Mary Leonard (Linnane). Did this John have a brother James?
Trawling through the online records, I found all these children for James Hurley and Mary Leonard:
Randal in Coolnagarrane 1814
Denis in Coolnagarrane 1816
James on Chapel Lane 1819
Michael on Chapel Lane 1825
There is a John Hurley in Coolnagarrane in the Abbeystrowry Tithe Applotment (1835); there are a Patrick, John, and James Hurley in the Creagh TA (1832) in "Skibbereen town and gardens".
I think I once read that a Dan in the Daniel Hurley branch eventually moved up to Bandon. That may well have been the end of this tribe of Hurleys in Coolnagarrane. I have been in touch with Hurleys living there now, but they are not related.
I am dying to know where the old Coolnagarrane Hurleys originally came from. I realize Ballinacarriga is the Hurley seat in southwest Cork, but how did the southwest Cork Hurleys spread out from there...? The other Hurleys on my Grandmom's side, through the Mahonys, are almost a total blank, other than the names of some Hurley baptism sponsors for the Mahony children.
I cannot conclusively prove some of these relationships, and will have to rely on people "in the know" to fill me in.
I think my ggg-grandfather Michael Hurley had a brother Daniel, who married Honora McCarthy in 1850. As far as I can tell, Norry was a McCarthy Sowny from Drominidy. (Their son Daniel married a Julia McCarthy in 1894; she was also a McCarthy-Sowny, and also from Drominidy.)
I think Michael and Daniel had a younger sister Ellen, whose baptism record made it online (1815). (The Hurley records are all in Skibbereen Creagh & Sullon.) Her parents are recorded as John Hurley and Jane McCarthy, no residence given.
I think this Ellen married a John Sweeny in 1846. Michael Hurley and Daniel Hurley were witnesses. I think the Sweeny family lived at various times in Tooreennasillane, Kilnaclasha, and Lakelands.
The parents - John Hurley and Jane McCarthy, show up on the baptism record for a Randal Hurley in Coolnagarrane, 1814, parents James Hurley and Mary Leonard (Linnane). Did this John have a brother James?
Trawling through the online records, I found all these children for James Hurley and Mary Leonard:
Randal in Coolnagarrane 1814
Denis in Coolnagarrane 1816
James on Chapel Lane 1819
Michael on Chapel Lane 1825
There is a John Hurley in Coolnagarrane in the Abbeystrowry Tithe Applotment (1835); there are a Patrick, John, and James Hurley in the Creagh TA (1832) in "Skibbereen town and gardens".
I think I once read that a Dan in the Daniel Hurley branch eventually moved up to Bandon. That may well have been the end of this tribe of Hurleys in Coolnagarrane. I have been in touch with Hurleys living there now, but they are not related.
I am dying to know where the old Coolnagarrane Hurleys originally came from. I realize Ballinacarriga is the Hurley seat in southwest Cork, but how did the southwest Cork Hurleys spread out from there...? The other Hurleys on my Grandmom's side, through the Mahonys, are almost a total blank, other than the names of some Hurley baptism sponsors for the Mahony children.
Wednesday, January 4, 2012
Some unsung Cork heroes of Irish Independence
Most Irish family researchers and historians are aware of General Michael Collins and his predecessor, Jeremiah O'Donovan Rossa. Considerable chatter has been devoted to these two towering figures of history on forums pertaining to Ireland.
Today I thought I'd post about two individuals geographically closer to my mother's ancestral origins, and therefore somewhat dearer to me as I practically consider them neighbors.
Since I have two Hurley lines and know absolutely nothing about one and only a little about the other, Sean Hurley sparked my curiosity. According to the Southern Star, Sean Hurley, born July 3, 1887, in Maulagow, Leap, was the only Corkman who died in or was executed for his participation in the 1916 Easter Rising. In literature about Michael Collins you'll see Sean's name. Sean's sister Kate was Michael's sister-in-law; she was the first wife of Michael's oldest brother Johnny Collins. However, Sean and Michael were friends before that.
Some literature says that Sean Hurley was Michael's cousin. Other than this well-documented relationship by marriage I have not seen anything specifying this blood relationship.
Sean's father was John Daniel Hurley, whom the Southern Star says was "of Ballinacarriga stock." Well, that doesn't really tell me much because Hurleys in southwest Cork pretty much all originated from Ballinacarriga, the Hurley seat. From my still meager understanding of Hurley history, apparently there was territory divided up between Hurleys and McCarthys in the Drinagh area way back when.
Working backwards, I found the family in the censuses. Maulagow is in the Drinagh District Electoral Division. In the 1911 census I found 69 year old John, 63 year old Kate, and 32 year old son Patrick. John and Kate were married 40 years.
The 1901 census lists John at 50, Kate at 45, Pat 21, John (that would be Sean) 14, Kattie 18, and Mollie 16.
I then looked for the marriage. John Daniel Hurley married Catherine Walsh of Maulatrahane 13-Feb-1872, in the R.C. Parish of Kilmacabea. However, as far as I can tell, the children were baptized in Drimoleague & Drinagh R.C. Parish:
Daniel 1872, William 1874, Ellen 1875, Patrick 1878, and Catherine 1881 were the only siblings of Sean that I could find.
Unfortunately, the ages listed in the census for Sean Hurley's parents slide around. Hurley is all over the place, but Walsh is not quite as common, so I thought I'd try looking for Kate Walsh's family records. Her parents may have been William Walsh and Kate Donovan of Maulatrahane. The children I found were John 1835, Patrick 1837, William 1838, Mary 1839, Thomas 1841, Garrett 1844 (I have seen this name in conjunction with Walsh frequently), James 1846, Catherine 1848, and Ellen 1851.
(Note: I have NOT examined all these records.)
Some day when there is ample time I may take a crack at looking for John Hurley.
The other unsung Cork hero whom I yearn to know more was born as Jeremiah, in Coolnagarrane on January 28, 1891 (which I haven't verified), to Michael O'Sullivan and Margaret McCarthy. Gearóid O'Sullivan hoisted the tri-color flag during the Easter Rising and was the Quarter-Master General of the Free State.
I have the marriage record of the parents. Michael and Margaret were married January 6, 1883 in Skibbereen. Michael O'Sullivan was from Lough Hyne; his father Daniel was deceased. Margaret was from Coolnagarrane, and her father Owen McCarthy was also deceased.
According to online sources Margaret was born in Coolnagarrane. I don't know if that is factually correct; the marriage record stating a residence is not proof that one was born in the same place. Michael went to Coolnagarrane to the McCarthy holding. My Hurley ancestors were from Coolnagarrane, and they may have had McCarthy ancestors, which is why this O'Sullivan family is dear to my heart.
I took a look at the census records. The O'Sullivans were indeed ardent nationalists; their 1911 census return is filled out in Irish. Notice that Gearóid is not listed; he was likely away occupied with his studies. The record says Margaret was 54, which would place her birth year at about 1857.
The 1901 census lists Margaret as 40. That would put her year of birth around 1861.
I have been unable to verify I have identified the correct Margaret McCarthy. After trawling through the online church records, looking for Margarets with fathers named Owen (or Eugene, an alternate name), I came up with at least two families, maybe more.
The family of a Eugene McCarthy and Mary Walsh as far as I can tell lived in Skibbereen. Some of the records for the children list Mill Road, which doesn't particularly bother me, as that is of close proximity to Coolnagarrane. The marriage, if I managed to grab the correct one, was in Skibbereen & Rath, January 28, 1845, and included a Richard Walsh as witness. The children were Catherine 1845, Honora 1847 (Norry McCarthy as sponsor), Helena 1849 (Pat Hurley and Mary Walsh as sponsors), Eugene 1851 (Thomas Walsh sponsor), Timothy 1855 (Mary Hurley sponsor), Mary of Mill Road 1857(Richard Walsh sponsor), Bridget Ann of Mill Street 1860 (Mary Walsh sponsor), Margaret 1862 (Mary Hurley sponsor), and James (Honora Walsh sponsor).
The other Margaret I found was baptized September 4, 1857, the daughter of Eugene McCarthy and Mary Carthy. The residence listed is Russagh, well on the south side of Skibbereen. Jerry Carthy was a sponsor. There are records for an Owen (Mc)Carthy and a Mary (Mc)Carthy going back to 1838, and I am uncertain if they are for the same or for different families. Joanna 1838, Eugene 1842, Timothy 1844, John 1848, Owen 1850, John of North Street 1853, Margaret of Russagh (south of Skibbereen) 1857.
(Note: I have NOT examined all these records.)
So I am a bit stuck there. I have no further information other than a funeral notice for Margaret McCarthy O'Sullivan from the Southern Star, 20-May-1944.
I am fairly certain one of the descendants of Margaret McCarthy and Michael O'Sullivan, another Michael O'Sullivan, was my Grandmother's doctor.
A lady by the name of Joni Scanlon is a descendant, and has been writing a much-needed book on Gearóid O'Sullivan. I am impatiently waiting for it.
Update: For information on General Michael Collins please do not post a question or email me since I have no information other than what is publicly known. Use Google and/or search the Cork genealogy forums.
Today I thought I'd post about two individuals geographically closer to my mother's ancestral origins, and therefore somewhat dearer to me as I practically consider them neighbors.
Sean Hurley
Since I have two Hurley lines and know absolutely nothing about one and only a little about the other, Sean Hurley sparked my curiosity. According to the Southern Star, Sean Hurley, born July 3, 1887, in Maulagow, Leap, was the only Corkman who died in or was executed for his participation in the 1916 Easter Rising. In literature about Michael Collins you'll see Sean's name. Sean's sister Kate was Michael's sister-in-law; she was the first wife of Michael's oldest brother Johnny Collins. However, Sean and Michael were friends before that.
Some literature says that Sean Hurley was Michael's cousin. Other than this well-documented relationship by marriage I have not seen anything specifying this blood relationship.
Sean's father was John Daniel Hurley, whom the Southern Star says was "of Ballinacarriga stock." Well, that doesn't really tell me much because Hurleys in southwest Cork pretty much all originated from Ballinacarriga, the Hurley seat. From my still meager understanding of Hurley history, apparently there was territory divided up between Hurleys and McCarthys in the Drinagh area way back when.
Working backwards, I found the family in the censuses. Maulagow is in the Drinagh District Electoral Division. In the 1911 census I found 69 year old John, 63 year old Kate, and 32 year old son Patrick. John and Kate were married 40 years.
The 1901 census lists John at 50, Kate at 45, Pat 21, John (that would be Sean) 14, Kattie 18, and Mollie 16.
I then looked for the marriage. John Daniel Hurley married Catherine Walsh of Maulatrahane 13-Feb-1872, in the R.C. Parish of Kilmacabea. However, as far as I can tell, the children were baptized in Drimoleague & Drinagh R.C. Parish:
Daniel 1872, William 1874, Ellen 1875, Patrick 1878, and Catherine 1881 were the only siblings of Sean that I could find.
Unfortunately, the ages listed in the census for Sean Hurley's parents slide around. Hurley is all over the place, but Walsh is not quite as common, so I thought I'd try looking for Kate Walsh's family records. Her parents may have been William Walsh and Kate Donovan of Maulatrahane. The children I found were John 1835, Patrick 1837, William 1838, Mary 1839, Thomas 1841, Garrett 1844 (I have seen this name in conjunction with Walsh frequently), James 1846, Catherine 1848, and Ellen 1851.
(Note: I have NOT examined all these records.)
Some day when there is ample time I may take a crack at looking for John Hurley.
Gearóid O'Sullivan
The other unsung Cork hero whom I yearn to know more was born as Jeremiah, in Coolnagarrane on January 28, 1891 (which I haven't verified), to Michael O'Sullivan and Margaret McCarthy. Gearóid O'Sullivan hoisted the tri-color flag during the Easter Rising and was the Quarter-Master General of the Free State.
I have the marriage record of the parents. Michael and Margaret were married January 6, 1883 in Skibbereen. Michael O'Sullivan was from Lough Hyne; his father Daniel was deceased. Margaret was from Coolnagarrane, and her father Owen McCarthy was also deceased.
According to online sources Margaret was born in Coolnagarrane. I don't know if that is factually correct; the marriage record stating a residence is not proof that one was born in the same place. Michael went to Coolnagarrane to the McCarthy holding. My Hurley ancestors were from Coolnagarrane, and they may have had McCarthy ancestors, which is why this O'Sullivan family is dear to my heart.
I took a look at the census records. The O'Sullivans were indeed ardent nationalists; their 1911 census return is filled out in Irish. Notice that Gearóid is not listed; he was likely away occupied with his studies. The record says Margaret was 54, which would place her birth year at about 1857.
The 1901 census lists Margaret as 40. That would put her year of birth around 1861.
I have been unable to verify I have identified the correct Margaret McCarthy. After trawling through the online church records, looking for Margarets with fathers named Owen (or Eugene, an alternate name), I came up with at least two families, maybe more.
The family of a Eugene McCarthy and Mary Walsh as far as I can tell lived in Skibbereen. Some of the records for the children list Mill Road, which doesn't particularly bother me, as that is of close proximity to Coolnagarrane. The marriage, if I managed to grab the correct one, was in Skibbereen & Rath, January 28, 1845, and included a Richard Walsh as witness. The children were Catherine 1845, Honora 1847 (Norry McCarthy as sponsor), Helena 1849 (Pat Hurley and Mary Walsh as sponsors), Eugene 1851 (Thomas Walsh sponsor), Timothy 1855 (Mary Hurley sponsor), Mary of Mill Road 1857(Richard Walsh sponsor), Bridget Ann of Mill Street 1860 (Mary Walsh sponsor), Margaret 1862 (Mary Hurley sponsor), and James (Honora Walsh sponsor).
The other Margaret I found was baptized September 4, 1857, the daughter of Eugene McCarthy and Mary Carthy. The residence listed is Russagh, well on the south side of Skibbereen. Jerry Carthy was a sponsor. There are records for an Owen (Mc)Carthy and a Mary (Mc)Carthy going back to 1838, and I am uncertain if they are for the same or for different families. Joanna 1838, Eugene 1842, Timothy 1844, John 1848, Owen 1850, John of North Street 1853, Margaret of Russagh (south of Skibbereen) 1857.
(Note: I have NOT examined all these records.)
So I am a bit stuck there. I have no further information other than a funeral notice for Margaret McCarthy O'Sullivan from the Southern Star, 20-May-1944.
I am fairly certain one of the descendants of Margaret McCarthy and Michael O'Sullivan, another Michael O'Sullivan, was my Grandmother's doctor.
A lady by the name of Joni Scanlon is a descendant, and has been writing a much-needed book on Gearóid O'Sullivan. I am impatiently waiting for it.
Update: For information on General Michael Collins please do not post a question or email me since I have no information other than what is publicly known. Use Google and/or search the Cork genealogy forums.
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